|[guidogodoy] Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM|| |
|Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me. |
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Edited at: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:06:35 AM
|[Head banger] Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM|| |
|lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record|
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Wednesday, November 14, 2012 11:10:07 PM)
|[Brian_Evans] Thursday, November 15, 2012 5:23:11 PM|| |
| Wow ..didn't realize you had me on ignore ..oh well. One last thing, just ignore that guy about downloading ...he's just on a kick. |
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Budred from Monday, November 12, 2012 2:30:55 PM)
|[guidogodoy] Wednesday, November 14, 2012 11:10:07 PM|| |
|Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue. |
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Wednesday, November 14, 2012 10:00:59 PM)
|[Head banger] Wednesday, November 14, 2012 10:00:59 PM|| |
|the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)|
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:42:11 AM)
|[guidogodoy] Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:42:11 AM|| |
|You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.|
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:24:37 AM)
|[Head banger] Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:24:37 AM|| |
|See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.|
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Monday, November 12, 2012 11:33:00 PM)
|[guidogodoy] Monday, November 12, 2012 11:33:00 PM|| |
|Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders. |
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, November 12, 2012 11:03:37 PM)
|[Head banger] Monday, November 12, 2012 11:03:37 PM|| |
|I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.|
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Monday, November 12, 2012 6:05:17 PM)
|[Deep Freeze] Monday, November 12, 2012 6:21:58 PM|| |
|[guidogodoy] Monday, November 12, 2012 6:05:17 PM|| |
|First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.|
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, November 12, 2012 3:41:30 PM)
|[guidogodoy] Monday, November 12, 2012 5:48:33 PM|| |
|Well, maybe there is a start: you actually think I am pissed. Believe me, there are far bigger things to be concerned about and a discussion on the internet isn't one of them.|
Now, just for argument's sake, you said that you liked the new VH but openly said that you didn't buy it. Not brain surgery there, you stole it. It was for sale and available yet you chose not to pay for it. That is what we call stealing.
You made the comment that "some of us can't buy everything we want." I argue that if you have the money to see as many concerts that you do, plus all the gas, food and lodging included, you yave a poor arguement there. After all, you were the one who showed off a pretty freaky tattoo that you claimed took hours. Don't know for sure but I will bet you anything that you actually paid the person for their hard work. Think albums come from the sky? Nobody makes livings off of them as musicians, producers, tech, etc.? Still, claim that "you don't get it?" You are a thief in that you stole someone's hard work for your own personal enjoyment. Is that clear enough?
Am I butt-hurt (always loved that JD expression) that you stole from VH? It was a clear case of theft but I'd actually be upset had you done that to Priest. Here we have HR buying multiple copies to make up for people who don't pay. Might not hurt a bigger band but, as KK even says, it makes things VERY tough for new bands nowadays. Yes, including MRH which, I assume, you actually purchase. Why bother paying when you can download just about every album for free? You are obviously not destitute. Why pay for them?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Budred from Monday, November 12, 2012 2:26:53 PM)
|[Head banger] Monday, November 12, 2012 3:41:30 PM|| |
|Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?|
|[metallo] Monday, November 12, 2012 3:28:25 PM|| |
|Adam Ant & the Ants, all three albums.|
It's not metal but so fantastic.
|[Budred] Monday, November 12, 2012 2:31:47 PM|| |
|Any other issues? |
|[Budred] Monday, November 12, 2012 2:30:55 PM|| |
|Brian, I ignore everything you say to me because I don't want any more back and forths with people here|
and I still feel like I did you wrong in the beginning. If you wouldn't see "Pumpkinhead" even if they paid you that's your right.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Brian_Evans from Monday, November 12, 2012 11:13:11 AM)
|[Budred] Monday, November 12, 2012 2:26:53 PM|| |
You want them downloaded out of existence because I would rather pay for their stuff than Van Halen's.
I don't even understand half of what you're pissed about. Fair play if I can jump in a car and drive to Detroit to
see bands I've seen? What???
MRH isn't big and you and others walked out on them, man my feelings are hurt now. I'm purposely keeping
this civil. I've already deleted a couple of comments. (Trying to keep the peace even though I have no clue why.)
Maybe you could explain what your problem with me is.
I don't do anything to you.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Monday, November 12, 2012 9:29:13 AM)
|[Brian_Evans] Monday, November 12, 2012 11:13:11 AM|| |
| I wouldn't go see "pumkinhead" if they paid me $200.00...no offense Bud.|
well...I guess I would for $300
Edited at: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:20:54 AM
|[guidogodoy] Monday, November 12, 2012 9:29:13 AM|| |
|Who said anything about going to VH concerts? You won't find any arguments with me there. However, if you can't (don't choose to, rather) spend $11 for a legal CD of a band you like then I really hope that MRH is downloaded out of existence. Fair play if you can afford to jump in a car, and drive to Detroit to see bands you've admittedly seen numerous times before, no?|
Shouldn't be too hard considering the numbers I saw at both concerts I happened to attend only because they were on the bill. Right before I joined the masses and walked out, that is.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Budred from Monday, November 12, 2012 5:46:22 AM)
|[Budred] Monday, November 12, 2012 5:46:22 AM|| |
|Some of us can't buy everything we want. Sometimes we have to pick and choose.|
Considering Van Halen is trying to fleece the public, (80.00 to 200.00 for concert tickets and such)
and bands like MRH and their side related projects are just trying to get by I choose to give them my money.
If that means you have to disapprove then so be it.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Monday, November 12, 2012 12:27:31 AM)