Ronnie Montrose is EXTREMELY underrated, but then again so is Criss Oliva.

Criss is one of those guitarists who nothing can be sad about. His guitar style, tone, sound and structure started a revolution that other guitar players clearly emulated.

I'm sorry if I came across as annoyed, Ron.  I didn't understand that particular comment, that's all.  My apologies.

Amazon.com is my friend, as it's the best place to go find new and old cd's outside of eBay IMO.

JPJ goes, I don't think he wanted to get back into the thick of playing gigs again.  He makes a decent living as a producer now from what I last read.

		ronhartsell wrote:
		I don't mean to raise your ire DP, Whitesnake did make 'some' really good music, but in doing so I think they could have been 'great'...One thing I have a hard time with is 'my perception' that Coverdale was trying too hard to be Plant...though I think the Coverdale/Page colaboration did a lot to get Plant back in the mix (albeit leaving JP Jones out!!)...all in all , a lot of money, a lot of girls (though Tawny bit him in the ass in the end), no need to be great...I haven't heard any newer Snake in a long time, and I would check it out (out of curiosity, if you insist)...      Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: I love Whitesnake!  Define how they should get "serious" though?  Considering their last disc Good To Be Bad is really nice and fun to listen too.       ronhartsell wrote: David Coverdale, you can't argue with his pipes!!  When I first heard Whitesnake, I thought they were a modern day rip-off of Zep...I think they were good enough, if they ever decided to get serious, to be a really good band, but like many other 'potentials' before and since, they will be known for what they were, another band who capitalized on the backs of others!! ...I saw King Diamond once on his 'Them' tour, would have loved to have seen 'Abigail'...I personally think he was under rated, but you either like his music or you don't, there's no middle ground with him...      flashrockinman wrote: which brings up the band white snake .  he's got the voice. deep purple stormbringer is a classic. of course i'm talking about coverdale.  but white snake to me is a chick hard rock band. not metal.  deep purple to me are the founders of hard rock.  you metioned machinehead.  that album started it all.  sooooooooo many good tracks on that ablum still played on the radio today. so many people talk about man of war.   they don't get any air play.  but there are people out there  that swear that the band is the greatest metal band  blah blah blah................  so i bought an album hoping to be blown away.   sorry  wasn't that impressed.  it looked like a cartoon of four guys  dressed as worriors on the cover in a row. a couple tracks where alright but, not what i was expecting.  king diamond's band to me was much better  melissa.  but nobody mentions them Edited at: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 1:44:32 PM

Sabbath's Technical Ectasy was a disaster.  They won't play anything off that album.  Never Say Die ('78 - Ozzy's last disc with Sabbath) is really good IMO.  Never Say Die! itself is a rather uplifting track.  The band went and found Dio and put out the classic Heaven & Hell CD - which I think is just as hard and heavy as British Steel and Maiden's debut in 80.  Kiss got sucked into the disco scene and put out Dynasty and Unmasked.  I will give Kiss points for trying to do a concept album.  I think that while Music From "The Elder" could've been a lot better, it's also where Kiss expanded their sound from Hard Rock and made their brief transition to Metal.

		ronhartsell wrote:
		In retrospect probably not, but at the time I think the term 'Acid Rock' would fit??  That's a term you don't hear much these days but was thrown around regularly at the time...again, the lines have blurred through time and I certainly can't argue (and won't) that Sabbath isn't Metal, because they are, I just don't think they started out as what I would call Metal today... ...Metal, as a genre, encompasses all forms of Metal...the Godfathers of Metal would be Sabbath as they were the influence of the Metal Gods themselves, and even though we agree that Zep is not Metal, you can hear their influence in some of Priests early music as well, but they were never Metal, whereas Sabbath, the Dio years, picked up on the musical style of Metal... ...Paranoid, Sweet Leaf, Iron Man and many others definately were the standards at the time, nothing compared to 'em...but the genre was just beginning and throughout most of the 70's Hard Rock picked up steam and that is where it stayed...then Punk made a splash and then Disco came on the scene...where was Sabbath?  Zep?  Kiss?  Maiden wasn't even born yet!!... ...Then came along a little old album called British Steel, gee, what happened next??...      Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: Ron, do you own Black Sabbath's Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, Paranoid or Sabotage CD's?  How about Black Sabbath and Master Of Reality?  These are not particularly progressive (save for certain instances), but rather they are dark, foreboding, and have a certain driving power that most bands still try emulating in the 21st century.  These are definite proof positive that Black Sabbath of the 70's belongs in the Metal category.  Good examples of Prog Rock are King Crimson, Rush, Pink Floyd and Queensryche.  Dream Theater too.  Aside from heavy riffs and such...these bands have zero in common with Judas Priest and Black Sabbath.  It's like trying to compare ZZ Top and the Allman Brothers - the only thing they have in common is that they're from the South.      ronhartsell wrote: Hey there DP...seems we pretty much agree on everything except on Sabbath, and I'm certainly not gonna tell you you're wrong!!!  Of all the bands we've been discussing here lately, Sabbath would be the one band I would give a free pass to and here's why... ...when Sabbath came out they had a sound unlike any other and for a reason well documented (fingertips cut off), if it wasn't for that (?fortunate?) accident, who knows what they would have sounded like, who cares, it happend!!...it was dark, dreary, evil sounding music, and it either scared the sh*t out of you or rocked you... but to me it's more about the lyrics for 70's Sabbath that would give them the edge over other bands, not so much what the music sounded like as compared to Metal as we've grown to know it...now Sabbath of the 80's and on are Metal, not what I would consider progressive rock, which I guess is where I put Sabbath and early Priest in, a Hard/Prog Rock category...for me, I believe it was Priest with their British Steel album to be the very first, front to back Heavy Metal album... DP, I am biased as I'm sure you're very well aware of...if anything, Priest is the band that I measure every other band against, and maybe that's not fair, but it's what works for me...      Darth_Painkiller_0870 wrote: Okay, I've been listening to Hard Rock and Metal since I was 9, and I've never heard of any band called The Rods.  Can someone fill me in on who these guys were? I reckon Gary Moore to be an excellent blues-rock guitarist who was very influencial for a lot of the 80's guitar heroes.  I think someone else pointed that out. Ron, if you listen to Black Sabbath's first two CD's...Black Sabbath & Paranoid, don't you think those 2 discs instantly DEFINE Sabbath as a Metal band?  I agree with your sentiment that Priest started out as Rock but transcended to Metal.  I think that change took place with Sad Wings Of Destiny.  Zep never was Metal and should not be considered as such.  What has Led Zeppelin sung that was ever Metal?  The answer: Nothing!  Kiss isn't Metal either, though they have made Metal discs (some Heavy Metal, some Pop/Glam Metal), but they are basically a Hard Rock band.  There is a fine but distinct line in the sand between Hard Rock and Metal.  The evidence of that is rather plain to see I think. Edited at: Monday, January 26, 2009 5:19:16 AM