| [_strat_] Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:06:37 PM | |
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Thank you very much. Now everyone will say Im a geek.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:43:17 AM)| |  | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You most certainly are passing! In fact, you are my STAR pupil!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How's THAT grab you????????
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Well, of course, if someone wears a leather jacket that means that he/she is not exactly a PETA supporter. It does tell something. And swearing tells that the person does not have a problem with swearing. Anything else is more or less just assuming, and is something that should be imo avoided.
So, for this and the previous posts, what do my grades look like? Did I pass?
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I think that you have all hit upon something important. It has a lot to do with culture. Different parts of the world have different ideas as to what is profane and what is not. Guido is quite right in that the English "prudes" have really impacted our language. The fact remains, what may be "profane" or "obscene" to one may not be so to another.
I cannot really agree with strat's logic regarding "judging" people by their speech just as you would the clothes they wear. I mean, I always try to take into account the person with whom I am speaking. I will say this, HOW a person dresses does say something about them. No doubt about it. For instance, I would never even consider wearing my pants so low that my underwear show! Nor would I wear a shirt with a curse word printed on it, for example. To me, it would not be dignified for a person of my age to do such a thing. THERE is a word; dignity. I believe that I will consider the topic of dignity in our next discussion. |
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| [Deep Freeze] Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:43:17 AM | |
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You most certainly are passing! In fact, you are my STAR pupil!! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How's THAT grab you????????
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by _strat_ from Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:09:06 AM)| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Well, of course, if someone wears a leather jacket that means that he/she is not exactly a PETA supporter. It does tell something. And swearing tells that the person does not have a problem with swearing. Anything else is more or less just assuming, and is something that should be imo avoided.
So, for this and the previous posts, what do my grades look like? Did I pass?
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I think that you have all hit upon something important. It has a lot to do with culture. Different parts of the world have different ideas as to what is profane and what is not. Guido is quite right in that the English "prudes" have really impacted our language. The fact remains, what may be "profane" or "obscene" to one may not be so to another.
I cannot really agree with strat's logic regarding "judging" people by their speech just as you would the clothes they wear. I mean, I always try to take into account the person with whom I am speaking. I will say this, HOW a person dresses does say something about them. No doubt about it. For instance, I would never even consider wearing my pants so low that my underwear show! Nor would I wear a shirt with a curse word printed on it, for example. To me, it would not be dignified for a person of my age to do such a thing. THERE is a word; dignity. I believe that I will consider the topic of dignity in our next discussion. |
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| [_strat_] Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:10:48 AM | |
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What a terrible and sexist remark! Of course the other parts are of value too! Like boobs or ass...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:55:22 AM) |
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| [_strat_] Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:09:06 AM | |
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Well, of course, if someone wears a leather jacket that means that he/she is not exactly a PETA supporter. It does tell something. And swearing tells that the person does not have a problem with swearing. Anything else is more or less just assuming, and is something that should be imo avoided.
So, for this and the previous posts, what do my grades look like? Did I pass?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Sunday, November 30, 2008 8:50:03 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I think that you have all hit upon something important. It has a lot to do with culture. Different parts of the world have different ideas as to what is profane and what is not. Guido is quite right in that the English "prudes" have really impacted our language. The fact remains, what may be "profane" or "obscene" to one may not be so to another.
I cannot really agree with strat's logic regarding "judging" people by their speech just as you would the clothes they wear. I mean, I always try to take into account the person with whom I am speaking. I will say this, HOW a person dresses does say something about them. No doubt about it. For instance, I would never even consider wearing my pants so low that my underwear show! Nor would I wear a shirt with a curse word printed on it, for example. To me, it would not be dignified for a person of my age to do such a thing. THERE is a word; dignity. I believe that I will consider the topic of dignity in our next discussion. |
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| [Deep Freeze] Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:58:57 AM | |
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HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FOUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:55:22 AM) |
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| [Head banger] Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:58:16 AM | |
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yeah, its funny that showing a mom nursing can be sexual??? how do the swear words work in other languages? german, japanese, stuff of different backgrounds.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:44:43 PM)| | | guidogodoy wrote: | | YOU RANG? LOL!
Reading backwards over the posts of the day, it was the first thing that came to mind when considering "swearing" and "offensive words" (not necessarily one and the same) in most Romance Languages. Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian all tend to have the heaviest (meaning most offensive) words associated with religion. It also varies from country to country. "Hostia" for example is a pretty innocent one in English. Simply means the "Host" as in Catholic religious ceremonies. Say it in Spain to a grandmother (always my unit of measure) and you'll probably get slapped! However, human sexual organs and acts are usually pretty mild.
I've always thought it curious how English prudes seem to have gotten it "backwards." Then again, I also notice that the same goes for nudity here where I live (heart of the Bible belt). Violence on tv and movies? No trouble. Heaven FORBID you show a boob! Even a mother nursing seems to have people avert their eyes around here.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | well, I only realy speak english. but, I know a few words of french, we need guido.
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Well, more languages... Aside from English, which is a world language, and Slovenian which is my native one, I speak only Serbo-Croat. So, I can say that it holds pretty much true in Slovenian and Serbo-Croat as well as in English. Though I must say that Serbo-Croat has the best swear words. We have taken most of them for our own, infact.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | so, strat, since you speak a more languages that me, does that hold true everywhere? French, the big swears are religious in nature.
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Ok, Im rewriting this message, because the language filter wouldnt let through my uncensored version (go figure..). So here is my censored version (thanks a lot, Murray. It took me 20 mins to write the uncensored one):
Ok, Ive read this a couple of times, and I think I finaly get what you meant.
While I agree that there is need to "tailor" your language to the audience to make sure that they understand it, I think its quite another to tailor the language to make sure that the audience is not offended by certain words that are deemed "socaily unacceptable".
Practicly ever form of trade, proffesion, education... etc. has its own special expressions that are largely unknown outside of it. If the issue is to tell them in "laymans terms", that is one thing. But we all understand the basic swear words. Again, I dont see any need to omit swearing from ones language.
I mean, swear words are what? References to stuff that is or was a taboo. Sexuality, most obviously. Which is a perfectly normal and common thing. But still, most common expressions for sexual organs or sex are deemed more or less offensive. Or other things, like "shit". Whats more normal than that?
Thats why I dont like it when people get so upset over swearing. Its just words that mostly refer to prefectly normal things. Words wont hurt anyone. They wont kill anyone. They wont make drug addicts out of us. Thats basicly what "obscenity" is all about. Making a fuss about nothing. And thats why I dont have any problem whatesoever with swearing.
Or if we talk about what do we tell about ourselves with the language we use. Well, here it is. I dont mind swearing. Does that alone make me a thug? Hardly. If other people take it that way, well, all I can say is its their problem. Judging others by the language that they use is imo same as judging people by the clothes they wear or music that they listen to. Its really much more complicated than that.
Now... I may have strayed from the discussion a bit, but here is my point, as good as it gets.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Good Morning, boys and girls! Sometime around half past four here in Las Vegas and we are ready for our latest edition of Insomniac Theater! I see we have had considerable discussion regarding our last topic, profanity. Well done! As was expected, our rather verbose classmate strat has raised some challenging issues and we should address this in our own, special way. Please follow along and prepare to review;
Last time, we talked about profanity's effect on others as well as it's place, if any, in our language. After much discussion, I am compelled to address this debate thusly: Just what does the writer owe to the hypothetical reader? And what, in all good conscience, does a writer owe to himself? These questions concern not only the professional writer, but certainly the writer here among us as well as everyone that writes a letter, speaks to a group or attempts to teach an adolescent a life-lesson. The true purpose of language to to convey a message from writer to reader or from speaker to auditor. And the first requirement is a common language.
It is among the most enduring fascinations of speech that everyone, in some fashion, is a linguist. I know my daughter speaks fluent "computerese". I speak fairly good "finance". Doctors tend to be rather fluent in "medicine" and we all know people that speak "sports". In our daily lives, we tailor our communication to the audience. Most professional writers tend to communicate to their audience as if they are all high school graduates in their most perceptive moments. Some may write to a "higher" audience but, we must resist the temptation to "dumb down" our writing, lest we insult our reader. Afterall, we are not children here, are we? In any event, no one wishes to be spoken to in a condescending manner. Conversely, it is unwise to fire our bolts of wisdom over their heads! Of course, an occasional reference to something otherwise not considered "common knowledge" is a great way to inform the curious reader and should not be avoided.
I tend to believe that the manner in which we write or speak tells others a lot about who we are as a person. Not so much our social status or our worth as a human being. I should think that even the very best among the human race resort to an occasional "F"-bomb, as it were. When I mentioned earlier that I feel it cheapens the message, I was referring to the fact that there are certainly far better ways to express or emphasize a point than turning to an obscene word or two. As I also mentioned previously, I have employed a rather "randy" comment or ten in my lifetime. Again, the point is that I tailor my words to fit my audience. More importantly, I look to ensure that my message meets my standards of deceny. Hmm..perhaps deceny should be on our agenda for a future conversation? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edited at: Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:15:01 AM |
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| [Head banger] Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:55:22 AM | |
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I think the C bomb is to imply that the only part of that person of value is well, that part. a friend of mine compares it to calling a guy a paycheque.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by devils_child from Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:28:55 AM)| | | devils_child wrote: | | Are there any Germans here?.... where's Udo when you need him?.... I have heard that Germans are pretty open with the whole sex / nudity thing. What is it like within the language?.... I want to know what is deemed offensive in terms of language... Here in Australia general curse words that are pretty much accepted are like the "F-Bomb" haha and "shit". Most offensive I think is the "C-Bomb" and I'm not referring to 'crap'. I think it varies from person to person however. I tell you now, I don't mind the "C-Bomb" but say the word "slut" in my presence and I will give you an ear full....... Words that imply certain things about a person insult me and that being one of those words which applies only to women drives me insane.... It's disrespectful laguage at it's most offensive to me. 
As Freeze and a few others have mentioned it has alot to do with the people you are associating with in conversation, I would certainly not use profane language in front of my grandparents, at work or around young children. Yes let's talk about decency..... Hahaha... |
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| [Deep Freeze] Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:20:51 AM | |
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Dignity, Mara my dear. Dignity.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Mara from Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:18:33 AM)
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Mara wrote: |
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| I totally agree with Freeze about the low-hanging pants:) I would like to add that any woman, no matter how big or small her ass(ets) should NOT, I repeat NOT, wear sweats with the word "Juicy" printed on the butt. Not a good look. And don't get me started on gum-cracking, and loud gum-chewing....I have called customer service centers at times, and get the rep who is loudly chewing her cud.....Yecchh.... |
Edited at: Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:22:41 AM |
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| [Everleigh] Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:18:33 AM | |
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| I totally agree with Freeze about the low-hanging pants:) I would like to add that any woman, no matter how big or small her ass(ets) should NOT, I repeat NOT, wear sweats with the word "Juicy" printed on the butt. Not a good look. And don't get me started on gum-cracking, and loud gum-chewing....I have called customer service centers at times, and get the rep who is loudly chewing her cud.....Yecchh.... |
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| [Deep Freeze] Sunday, November 30, 2008 8:50:03 AM | |
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I think that you have all hit upon something important. It has a lot to do with culture. Different parts of the world have different ideas as to what is profane and what is not. Guido is quite right in that the English "prudes" have really impacted our language. The fact remains, what may be "profane" or "obscene" to one may not be so to another.
I cannot really agree with strat's logic regarding "judging" people by their speech just as you would the clothes they wear. I mean, I always try to take into account the person with whom I am speaking. I will say this, HOW a person dresses does say something about them. No doubt about it. For instance, I would never even consider wearing my pants so low that my underwear show! Nor would I wear a shirt with a curse word printed on it, for example. To me, it would not be dignified for a person of my age to do such a thing. THERE is a word; dignity. I believe that I will consider the topic of dignity in our next discussion. |
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| [devils_child] Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:28:55 AM | |
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Are there any Germans here?.... where's Udo when you need him?.... I have heard that Germans are pretty open with the whole sex / nudity thing. What is it like within the language?.... I want to know what is deemed offensive in terms of language... Here in Australia general curse words that are pretty much accepted are like the "F-Bomb" haha and "shit". Most offensive I think is the "C-Bomb" and I'm not referring to 'crap'. I think it varies from person to person however. I tell you now, I don't mind the "C-Bomb" but say the word "slut" in my presence and I will give you an ear full....... Words that imply certain things about a person insult me and that being one of those words which applies only to women drives me insane.... It's disrespectful laguage at it's most offensive to me.
As Freeze and a few others have mentioned it has alot to do with the people you are associating with in conversation, I would certainly not use profane language in front of my grandparents, at work or around young children. Yes let's talk about decency..... Hahaha... |
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| [guidogodoy] Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:44:43 PM | |
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YOU RANG? LOL!
Reading backwards over the posts of the day, it was the first thing that came to mind when considering "swearing" and "offensive words" (not necessarily one and the same) in most Romance Languages. Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian all tend to have the heaviest (meaning most offensive) words associated with religion. It also varies from country to country. "Hostia" for example is a pretty innocent one in English. Simply means the "Host" as in Catholic religious ceremonies. Say it in Spain to a grandmother (always my unit of measure) and you'll probably get slapped! However, human sexual organs and acts are usually pretty mild.
I've always thought it curious how English prudes seem to have gotten it "backwards." Then again, I also notice that the same goes for nudity here where I live (heart of the Bible belt). Violence on tv and movies? No trouble. Heaven FORBID you show a boob! Even a mother nursing seems to have people avert their eyes around here.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:13:14 PM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | well, I only realy speak english. but, I know a few words of french, we need guido.
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Well, more languages... Aside from English, which is a world language, and Slovenian which is my native one, I speak only Serbo-Croat. So, I can say that it holds pretty much true in Slovenian and Serbo-Croat as well as in English. Though I must say that Serbo-Croat has the best swear words. We have taken most of them for our own, infact.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | so, strat, since you speak a more languages that me, does that hold true everywhere? French, the big swears are religious in nature.
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Ok, Im rewriting this message, because the language filter wouldnt let through my uncensored version (go figure..). So here is my censored version (thanks a lot, Murray. It took me 20 mins to write the uncensored one):
Ok, Ive read this a couple of times, and I think I finaly get what you meant.
While I agree that there is need to "tailor" your language to the audience to make sure that they understand it, I think its quite another to tailor the language to make sure that the audience is not offended by certain words that are deemed "socaily unacceptable".
Practicly ever form of trade, proffesion, education... etc. has its own special expressions that are largely unknown outside of it. If the issue is to tell them in "laymans terms", that is one thing. But we all understand the basic swear words. Again, I dont see any need to omit swearing from ones language.
I mean, swear words are what? References to stuff that is or was a taboo. Sexuality, most obviously. Which is a perfectly normal and common thing. But still, most common expressions for sexual organs or sex are deemed more or less offensive. Or other things, like "shit". Whats more normal than that?
Thats why I dont like it when people get so upset over swearing. Its just words that mostly refer to prefectly normal things. Words wont hurt anyone. They wont kill anyone. They wont make drug addicts out of us. Thats basicly what "obscenity" is all about. Making a fuss about nothing. And thats why I dont have any problem whatesoever with swearing.
Or if we talk about what do we tell about ourselves with the language we use. Well, here it is. I dont mind swearing. Does that alone make me a thug? Hardly. If other people take it that way, well, all I can say is its their problem. Judging others by the language that they use is imo same as judging people by the clothes they wear or music that they listen to. Its really much more complicated than that.
Now... I may have strayed from the discussion a bit, but here is my point, as good as it gets.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Good Morning, boys and girls! Sometime around half past four here in Las Vegas and we are ready for our latest edition of Insomniac Theater! I see we have had considerable discussion regarding our last topic, profanity. Well done! As was expected, our rather verbose classmate strat has raised some challenging issues and we should address this in our own, special way. Please follow along and prepare to review;
Last time, we talked about profanity's effect on others as well as it's place, if any, in our language. After much discussion, I am compelled to address this debate thusly: Just what does the writer owe to the hypothetical reader? And what, in all good conscience, does a writer owe to himself? These questions concern not only the professional writer, but certainly the writer here among us as well as everyone that writes a letter, speaks to a group or attempts to teach an adolescent a life-lesson. The true purpose of language to to convey a message from writer to reader or from speaker to auditor. And the first requirement is a common language.
It is among the most enduring fascinations of speech that everyone, in some fashion, is a linguist. I know my daughter speaks fluent "computerese". I speak fairly good "finance". Doctors tend to be rather fluent in "medicine" and we all know people that speak "sports". In our daily lives, we tailor our communication to the audience. Most professional writers tend to communicate to their audience as if they are all high school graduates in their most perceptive moments. Some may write to a "higher" audience but, we must resist the temptation to "dumb down" our writing, lest we insult our reader. Afterall, we are not children here, are we? In any event, no one wishes to be spoken to in a condescending manner. Conversely, it is unwise to fire our bolts of wisdom over their heads! Of course, an occasional reference to something otherwise not considered "common knowledge" is a great way to inform the curious reader and should not be avoided.
I tend to believe that the manner in which we write or speak tells others a lot about who we are as a person. Not so much our social status or our worth as a human being. I should think that even the very best among the human race resort to an occasional "F"-bomb, as it were. When I mentioned earlier that I feel it cheapens the message, I was referring to the fact that there are certainly far better ways to express or emphasize a point than turning to an obscene word or two. As I also mentioned previously, I have employed a rather "randy" comment or ten in my lifetime. Again, the point is that I tailor my words to fit my audience. More importantly, I look to ensure that my message meets my standards of deceny. Hmm..perhaps deceny should be on our agenda for a future conversation? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edited at: Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:15:01 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:59:37 PM | |
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HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well said, strat! Well said, indeed! A wonderfully well thought-out post! If nothing else, I have stirred the fires of debate and given you pause to ponder, as it were!!! I love it! GREAT job!
The beauty of it all is that we all have an opinion and there really is no "wrong" answer. I believe you and I have many differences but, at the end of the day, we always seem to get our points across! I love it! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| [Head banger] Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:13:14 PM | |
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well, I only realy speak english. but, I know a few words of french, we need guido.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by _strat_ from Saturday, November 29, 2008 5:58:50 PM)| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Well, more languages... Aside from English, which is a world language, and Slovenian which is my native one, I speak only Serbo-Croat. So, I can say that it holds pretty much true in Slovenian and Serbo-Croat as well as in English. Though I must say that Serbo-Croat has the best swear words. We have taken most of them for our own, infact.
| | | Head banger wrote: | | so, strat, since you speak a more languages that me, does that hold true everywhere? French, the big swears are religious in nature.
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Ok, Im rewriting this message, because the language filter wouldnt let through my uncensored version (go figure..). So here is my censored version (thanks a lot, Murray. It took me 20 mins to write the uncensored one):
Ok, Ive read this a couple of times, and I think I finaly get what you meant.
While I agree that there is need to "tailor" your language to the audience to make sure that they understand it, I think its quite another to tailor the language to make sure that the audience is not offended by certain words that are deemed "socaily unacceptable".
Practicly ever form of trade, proffesion, education... etc. has its own special expressions that are largely unknown outside of it. If the issue is to tell them in "laymans terms", that is one thing. But we all understand the basic swear words. Again, I dont see any need to omit swearing from ones language.
I mean, swear words are what? References to stuff that is or was a taboo. Sexuality, most obviously. Which is a perfectly normal and common thing. But still, most common expressions for sexual organs or sex are deemed more or less offensive. Or other things, like "shit". Whats more normal than that?
Thats why I dont like it when people get so upset over swearing. Its just words that mostly refer to prefectly normal things. Words wont hurt anyone. They wont kill anyone. They wont make drug addicts out of us. Thats basicly what "obscenity" is all about. Making a fuss about nothing. And thats why I dont have any problem whatesoever with swearing.
Or if we talk about what do we tell about ourselves with the language we use. Well, here it is. I dont mind swearing. Does that alone make me a thug? Hardly. If other people take it that way, well, all I can say is its their problem. Judging others by the language that they use is imo same as judging people by the clothes they wear or music that they listen to. Its really much more complicated than that.
Now... I may have strayed from the discussion a bit, but here is my point, as good as it gets.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Good Morning, boys and girls! Sometime around half past four here in Las Vegas and we are ready for our latest edition of Insomniac Theater! I see we have had considerable discussion regarding our last topic, profanity. Well done! As was expected, our rather verbose classmate strat has raised some challenging issues and we should address this in our own, special way. Please follow along and prepare to review;
Last time, we talked about profanity's effect on others as well as it's place, if any, in our language. After much discussion, I am compelled to address this debate thusly: Just what does the writer owe to the hypothetical reader? And what, in all good conscience, does a writer owe to himself? These questions concern not only the professional writer, but certainly the writer here among us as well as everyone that writes a letter, speaks to a group or attempts to teach an adolescent a life-lesson. The true purpose of language to to convey a message from writer to reader or from speaker to auditor. And the first requirement is a common language.
It is among the most enduring fascinations of speech that everyone, in some fashion, is a linguist. I know my daughter speaks fluent "computerese". I speak fairly good "finance". Doctors tend to be rather fluent in "medicine" and we all know people that speak "sports". In our daily lives, we tailor our communication to the audience. Most professional writers tend to communicate to their audience as if they are all high school graduates in their most perceptive moments. Some may write to a "higher" audience but, we must resist the temptation to "dumb down" our writing, lest we insult our reader. Afterall, we are not children here, are we? In any event, no one wishes to be spoken to in a condescending manner. Conversely, it is unwise to fire our bolts of wisdom over their heads! Of course, an occasional reference to something otherwise not considered "common knowledge" is a great way to inform the curious reader and should not be avoided.
I tend to believe that the manner in which we write or speak tells others a lot about who we are as a person. Not so much our social status or our worth as a human being. I should think that even the very best among the human race resort to an occasional "F"-bomb, as it were. When I mentioned earlier that I feel it cheapens the message, I was referring to the fact that there are certainly far better ways to express or emphasize a point than turning to an obscene word or two. As I also mentioned previously, I have employed a rather "randy" comment or ten in my lifetime. Again, the point is that I tailor my words to fit my audience. More importantly, I look to ensure that my message meets my standards of deceny. Hmm..perhaps deceny should be on our agenda for a future conversation? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edited at: Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:15:01 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 29, 2008 5:58:50 PM | |
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Well, more languages... Aside from English, which is a world language, and Slovenian which is my native one, I speak only Serbo-Croat. So, I can say that it holds pretty much true in Slovenian and Serbo-Croat as well as in English. Though I must say that Serbo-Croat has the best swear words. We have taken most of them for our own, infact.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Saturday, November 29, 2008 5:42:12 PM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | so, strat, since you speak a more languages that me, does that hold true everywhere? French, the big swears are religious in nature.
| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Ok, Im rewriting this message, because the language filter wouldnt let through my uncensored version (go figure..). So here is my censored version (thanks a lot, Murray. It took me 20 mins to write the uncensored one):
Ok, Ive read this a couple of times, and I think I finaly get what you meant.
While I agree that there is need to "tailor" your language to the audience to make sure that they understand it, I think its quite another to tailor the language to make sure that the audience is not offended by certain words that are deemed "socaily unacceptable".
Practicly ever form of trade, proffesion, education... etc. has its own special expressions that are largely unknown outside of it. If the issue is to tell them in "laymans terms", that is one thing. But we all understand the basic swear words. Again, I dont see any need to omit swearing from ones language.
I mean, swear words are what? References to stuff that is or was a taboo. Sexuality, most obviously. Which is a perfectly normal and common thing. But still, most common expressions for sexual organs or sex are deemed more or less offensive. Or other things, like "shit". Whats more normal than that?
Thats why I dont like it when people get so upset over swearing. Its just words that mostly refer to prefectly normal things. Words wont hurt anyone. They wont kill anyone. They wont make drug addicts out of us. Thats basicly what "obscenity" is all about. Making a fuss about nothing. And thats why I dont have any problem whatesoever with swearing.
Or if we talk about what do we tell about ourselves with the language we use. Well, here it is. I dont mind swearing. Does that alone make me a thug? Hardly. If other people take it that way, well, all I can say is its their problem. Judging others by the language that they use is imo same as judging people by the clothes they wear or music that they listen to. Its really much more complicated than that.
Now... I may have strayed from the discussion a bit, but here is my point, as good as it gets.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Good Morning, boys and girls! Sometime around half past four here in Las Vegas and we are ready for our latest edition of Insomniac Theater! I see we have had considerable discussion regarding our last topic, profanity. Well done! As was expected, our rather verbose classmate strat has raised some challenging issues and we should address this in our own, special way. Please follow along and prepare to review;
Last time, we talked about profanity's effect on others as well as it's place, if any, in our language. After much discussion, I am compelled to address this debate thusly: Just what does the writer owe to the hypothetical reader? And what, in all good conscience, does a writer owe to himself? These questions concern not only the professional writer, but certainly the writer here among us as well as everyone that writes a letter, speaks to a group or attempts to teach an adolescent a life-lesson. The true purpose of language to to convey a message from writer to reader or from speaker to auditor. And the first requirement is a common language.
It is among the most enduring fascinations of speech that everyone, in some fashion, is a linguist. I know my daughter speaks fluent "computerese". I speak fairly good "finance". Doctors tend to be rather fluent in "medicine" and we all know people that speak "sports". In our daily lives, we tailor our communication to the audience. Most professional writers tend to communicate to their audience as if they are all high school graduates in their most perceptive moments. Some may write to a "higher" audience but, we must resist the temptation to "dumb down" our writing, lest we insult our reader. Afterall, we are not children here, are we? In any event, no one wishes to be spoken to in a condescending manner. Conversely, it is unwise to fire our bolts of wisdom over their heads! Of course, an occasional reference to something otherwise not considered "common knowledge" is a great way to inform the curious reader and should not be avoided.
I tend to believe that the manner in which we write or speak tells others a lot about who we are as a person. Not so much our social status or our worth as a human being. I should think that even the very best among the human race resort to an occasional "F"-bomb, as it were. When I mentioned earlier that I feel it cheapens the message, I was referring to the fact that there are certainly far better ways to express or emphasize a point than turning to an obscene word or two. As I also mentioned previously, I have employed a rather "randy" comment or ten in my lifetime. Again, the point is that I tailor my words to fit my audience. More importantly, I look to ensure that my message meets my standards of deceny. Hmm..perhaps deceny should be on our agenda for a future conversation? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edited at: Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:15:01 AM |
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| [Head banger] Saturday, November 29, 2008 5:42:12 PM | |
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so, strat, since you speak a more languages that me, does that hold true everywhere? French, the big swears are religious in nature.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by _strat_ from Saturday, November 29, 2008 5:30:32 PM)| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Ok, Im rewriting this message, because the language filter wouldnt let through my uncensored version (go figure..). So here is my censored version (thanks a lot, Murray. It took me 20 mins to write the uncensored one):
Ok, Ive read this a couple of times, and I think I finaly get what you meant.
While I agree that there is need to "tailor" your language to the audience to make sure that they understand it, I think its quite another to tailor the language to make sure that the audience is not offended by certain words that are deemed "socaily unacceptable".
Practicly ever form of trade, proffesion, education... etc. has its own special expressions that are largely unknown outside of it. If the issue is to tell them in "laymans terms", that is one thing. But we all understand the basic swear words. Again, I dont see any need to omit swearing from ones language.
I mean, swear words are what? References to stuff that is or was a taboo. Sexuality, most obviously. Which is a perfectly normal and common thing. But still, most common expressions for sexual organs or sex are deemed more or less offensive. Or other things, like "shit". Whats more normal than that?
Thats why I dont like it when people get so upset over swearing. Its just words that mostly refer to prefectly normal things. Words wont hurt anyone. They wont kill anyone. They wont make drug addicts out of us. Thats basicly what "obscenity" is all about. Making a fuss about nothing. And thats why I dont have any problem whatesoever with swearing.
Or if we talk about what do we tell about ourselves with the language we use. Well, here it is. I dont mind swearing. Does that alone make me a thug? Hardly. If other people take it that way, well, all I can say is its their problem. Judging others by the language that they use is imo same as judging people by the clothes they wear or music that they listen to. Its really much more complicated than that.
Now... I may have strayed from the discussion a bit, but here is my point, as good as it gets.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Good Morning, boys and girls! Sometime around half past four here in Las Vegas and we are ready for our latest edition of Insomniac Theater! I see we have had considerable discussion regarding our last topic, profanity. Well done! As was expected, our rather verbose classmate strat has raised some challenging issues and we should address this in our own, special way. Please follow along and prepare to review;
Last time, we talked about profanity's effect on others as well as it's place, if any, in our language. After much discussion, I am compelled to address this debate thusly: Just what does the writer owe to the hypothetical reader? And what, in all good conscience, does a writer owe to himself? These questions concern not only the professional writer, but certainly the writer here among us as well as everyone that writes a letter, speaks to a group or attempts to teach an adolescent a life-lesson. The true purpose of language to to convey a message from writer to reader or from speaker to auditor. And the first requirement is a common language.
It is among the most enduring fascinations of speech that everyone, in some fashion, is a linguist. I know my daughter speaks fluent "computerese". I speak fairly good "finance". Doctors tend to be rather fluent in "medicine" and we all know people that speak "sports". In our daily lives, we tailor our communication to the audience. Most professional writers tend to communicate to their audience as if they are all high school graduates in their most perceptive moments. Some may write to a "higher" audience but, we must resist the temptation to "dumb down" our writing, lest we insult our reader. Afterall, we are not children here, are we? In any event, no one wishes to be spoken to in a condescending manner. Conversely, it is unwise to fire our bolts of wisdom over their heads! Of course, an occasional reference to something otherwise not considered "common knowledge" is a great way to inform the curious reader and should not be avoided.
I tend to believe that the manner in which we write or speak tells others a lot about who we are as a person. Not so much our social status or our worth as a human being. I should think that even the very best among the human race resort to an occasional "F"-bomb, as it were. When I mentioned earlier that I feel it cheapens the message, I was referring to the fact that there are certainly far better ways to express or emphasize a point than turning to an obscene word or two. As I also mentioned previously, I have employed a rather "randy" comment or ten in my lifetime. Again, the point is that I tailor my words to fit my audience. More importantly, I look to ensure that my message meets my standards of deceny. Hmm..perhaps deceny should be on our agenda for a future conversation? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edited at: Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:15:01 AM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 29, 2008 5:31:22 PM | |
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Said the one with 15.000 + posts... [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 29, 2008 4:53:09 PM)
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Exactly, WAI. Strat,
verbose (adj): given to wordiness
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Edited at: Saturday, November 29, 2008 5:32:02 PM |
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| [_strat_] Saturday, November 29, 2008 5:30:32 PM | |
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Ok, Im rewriting this message, because the language filter wouldnt let through my uncensored version (go figure..). So here is my censored version (thanks a lot, Murray. It took me 20 mins to write the uncensored one):
Ok, Ive read this a couple of times, and I think I finaly get what you meant.
While I agree that there is need to "tailor" your language to the audience to make sure that they understand it, I think its quite another to tailor the language to make sure that the audience is not offended by certain words that are deemed "socaily unacceptable".
Practicly ever form of trade, proffesion, education... etc. has its own special expressions that are largely unknown outside of it. If the issue is to tell them in "laymans terms", that is one thing. But we all understand the basic swear words. Again, I dont see any need to omit swearing from ones language.
I mean, swear words are what? References to stuff that is or was a taboo. Sexuality, most obviously. Which is a perfectly normal and common thing. But still, most common expressions for sexual organs or sex are deemed more or less offensive. Or other things, like "shit". Whats more normal than that?
Thats why I dont like it when people get so upset over swearing. Its just words that mostly refer to prefectly normal things. Words wont hurt anyone. They wont kill anyone. They wont make drug addicts out of us. Thats basicly what "obscenity" is all about. Making a fuss about nothing. And thats why I dont have any problem whatesoever with swearing.
Or if we talk about what do we tell about ourselves with the language we use. Well, here it is. I dont mind swearing. Does that alone make me a thug? Hardly. If other people take it that way, well, all I can say is its their problem. Judging others by the language that they use is imo same as judging people by the clothes they wear or music that they listen to. Its really much more complicated than that.
Now... I may have strayed from the discussion a bit, but here is my point, as good as it gets.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:06:48 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Good Morning, boys and girls! Sometime around half past four here in Las Vegas and we are ready for our latest edition of Insomniac Theater! I see we have had considerable discussion regarding our last topic, profanity. Well done! As was expected, our rather verbose classmate strat has raised some challenging issues and we should address this in our own, special way. Please follow along and prepare to review;
Last time, we talked about profanity's effect on others as well as it's place, if any, in our language. After much discussion, I am compelled to address this debate thusly: Just what does the writer owe to the hypothetical reader? And what, in all good conscience, does a writer owe to himself? These questions concern not only the professional writer, but certainly the writer here among us as well as everyone that writes a letter, speaks to a group or attempts to teach an adolescent a life-lesson. The true purpose of language to to convey a message from writer to reader or from speaker to auditor. And the first requirement is a common language.
It is among the most enduring fascinations of speech that everyone, in some fashion, is a linguist. I know my daughter speaks fluent "computerese". I speak fairly good "finance". Doctors tend to be rather fluent in "medicine" and we all know people that speak "sports". In our daily lives, we tailor our communication to the audience. Most professional writers tend to communicate to their audience as if they are all high school graduates in their most perceptive moments. Some may write to a "higher" audience but, we must resist the temptation to "dumb down" our writing, lest we insult our reader. Afterall, we are not children here, are we? In any event, no one wishes to be spoken to in a condescending manner. Conversely, it is unwise to fire our bolts of wisdom over their heads! Of course, an occasional reference to something otherwise not considered "common knowledge" is a great way to inform the curious reader and should not be avoided.
I tend to believe that the manner in which we write or speak tells others a lot about who we are as a person. Not so much our social status or our worth as a human being. I should think that even the very best among the human race resort to an occasional "F"-bomb, as it were. When I mentioned earlier that I feel it cheapens the message, I was referring to the fact that there are certainly far better ways to express or emphasize a point than turning to an obscene word or two. As I also mentioned previously, I have employed a rather "randy" comment or ten in my lifetime. Again, the point is that I tailor my words to fit my audience. More importantly, I look to ensure that my message meets my standards of deceny. Hmm..perhaps deceny should be on our agenda for a future conversation? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edited at: Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:15:01 AM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Saturday, November 29, 2008 4:53:09 PM | |
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HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Exactly, WAI. Strat,
verbose (adj): given to wordiness
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| [.] Saturday, November 29, 2008 4:43:22 PM | |
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Deep Freeze.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by _strat_ from Saturday, November 29, 2008 4:06:37 PM)| | | _strat_ wrote: | | Um... Nope, didnt get any of that. WTF is "verbose"?
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Good Morning, boys and girls! Sometime around half past four here in Las Vegas and we are ready for our latest edition of Insomniac Theater! I see we have had considerable discussion regarding our last topic, profanity. Well done! As was expected, our rather verbose classmate strat has raised some challenging issues and we should address this in our own, special way. Please follow along and prepare to review;
Last time, we talked about profanity's effect on others as well as it's place, if any, in our language. After much discussion, I am compelled to address this debate thusly: Just what does the writer owe to the hypothetical reader? And what, in all good conscience, does a writer owe to himself? These questions concern not only the professional writer, but certainly the writer here among us as well as everyone that writes a letter, speaks to a group or attempts to teach an adolescent a life-lesson. The true purpose of language to to convey a message from writer to reader or from speaker to auditor. And the first requirement is a common language.
It is among the most enduring fascinations of speech that everyone, in some fashion, is a linguist. I know my daughter speaks fluent "computerese". I speak fairly good "finance". Doctors tend to be rather fluent in "medicine" and we all know people that speak "sports". In our daily lives, we tailor our communication to the audience. Most professional writers tend to communicate to their audience as if they are all high school graduates in their most perceptive moments. Some may write to a "higher" audience but, we must resist the temptation to "dumb down" our writing, lest we insult our reader. Afterall, we are not children here, are we? In any event, no one wishes to be spoken to in a condescending manner. Conversely, it is unwise to fire our bolts of wisdom over their heads! Of course, an occasional reference to something otherwise not considered "common knowledge" is a great way to inform the curious reader and should not be avoided.
I tend to believe that the manner in which we write or speak tells others a lot about who we are as a person. Not so much our social status or our worth as a human being. I should think that even the very best among the human race resort to an occasional "F"-bomb, as it were. When I mentioned earlier that I feel it cheapens the message, I was referring to the fact that there are certainly far better ways to express or emphasize a point than turning to an obscene word or two. As I also mentioned previously, I have employed a rather "randy" comment or ten in my lifetime. Again, the point is that I tailor my words to fit my audience. More importantly, I look to ensure that my message meets my standards of deceny. Hmm..perhaps deceny should be on our agenda for a future conversation? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edited at: Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:15:01 AM |
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