| [Justin Kenny] Monday, February 09, 2009 1:59:26 PM | |
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I think it's fair to say Priest may have 'dabbled' in the commercial 'pool,' in the name of keeping their name relevant....as KK himself put it (regarding the radical direction of "Turbo"), "...we figure, if Dokken and Twisted Sister could do it, why not Priest?" And while "Turbo" DID in fact open the doors to many who might not have otherwise given Priest half a chance, it also served to (somewhat) alienate those fans who were expecting the more straight-forward, heavy-hitting style Priest evidenced by "Defenders...." But I think some of these 'yo-yo'-esque dabbles were done without much compromise....Priest never gave off the idea that anyone in their record company ever sat them down and pushed the idea of putting forth a more "radio-friendly" album....the only time Columbia "..got on them" was when they snubbed the idea of using Roger Glover to produce "Sin After Sin." Once they realized they'd get more done with him than without him (at the company's urging)...they back-pedaled on their decision and squired him to man the board after all. Beyond that, Priest (I think) have been largely left to their own devices...creatively speaking. They could've easily made more commercial sounding albums after "Turbo..." but they are, at their core...a HEAVY METAL band...which is why "Ram It Down" sounded heavier than "Turbo," and why "Painkiller" sounded heavier than the previous 2 efforts combined.
They could've also easily told Curbishley to go shit in a hat for suggesting a concept album about Nostradamus. But all it WAS...was an idea.....once it swam in their minds for a spell, they realized there was a lotta potential to take that idea, bring it to life, and make something great come of it....and that they did...I don't care who says what about it. After all....I didn't rightly expect EVERY Priest fan in existence to love this one....let's face it....historically, fans have always had varying opinions from one Priest release to the next....the fact they explore so many possible territories musically and keep it within the metal 'realm' is probably what drives some Priest fans outta their ever-lovin' minds. And maybe...JUST maybe...the industry itself doesn't quite know what to think/make of Judas Priest for the same reasons....wanna know what else?? I don't CARE what the industry thinks....and neither do Priest....they make music for THEMSELVES first....it's gotta please THEM first...and if they were AT ALL displeased or ill at odds about "Nostradamus" upon its completion or at any time during the creative process...it'd have never seen the light of day.
For that matter...the same could be said for everything else they released...it's all about progression....it's all about what THEY feel magnifies their best achievements effort for effort. I, for one...couldn't be any more proud to be a fan of this band!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, February 09, 2009 1:31:01 PM)| |  | Head banger wrote: | | but, how do we know they are doing what they want? Turbo, was that a sell out? lots say so, I like it, but who am I. AOR was awesome, yet sold squat. is nost a gimick to sell more?
do they want to sell more? are they doing what they want, or what the industry wants? is selling out what they want? could they do some comercial crap? probably, but no one would buy it. they are known for doing what they do, not for "popular (read music lots of people like) music"
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | I see your point...I got it...but priest(after rob's return) kept doing whatever they wanted...you can see it with the last two albums....of course a band needs to sell their products...otherwise they would be unknown...and we fans would be disapointed and furious if we couldn't get their music....guitars and other stuff are not for free and they also need to eat...but metallica changed to a comercial band,they lost their identity...they lost that thing that made us like their music...and of course they turned their back to their real fans...on the other hand priest keeps trying new things, and nostradamus is a piece of evidence...for those who like it(i like it) and for those who don't
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I see. Well pao, win or lose, like or dislike, it is still about selling and making money. I admire your allegiance to Metal. I really do. Unfortunately, marketing and sales is what this whole show was about. Now then, on to your other post;
It is interesting that you would put it this way. ....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band.... As much as our dear friend Mr. Uno may take exception to what I am going to say, isn't that what Priest did with Ripper? They wanted to stay commercially viable and turned from what made them who they are/were. Jugulator is a great example. Not "Priest" sounding at all, as far as I am concerned. Very much like the grinding, crunchy "Nu-Metal" sound that is more commercial and sells more. They were trying to keep the cash coming in. Trying to remain relevant in the face of a HUGE change.
Of course, there are some that may point to Rob's return as a commercial gimmick. I can accept that. Say what you will but Priest, as with any other act, want to sell their records. That is what they do. It is how they make a living. For me, and most fans of the Band, Rob is what makes Priest. He is THE voice so I do not view his return as previously mentioned but I can see where some might make that connection. Anyway, it all comes down to selling the product. I don't think that Judas Priest are in a position at this stage of their career where they really need money..I mean gazillions. They certainly enjoy a comfortable lifestyle, I'm sure. I think Nostradamus is a good example of that. They did something they wanted to do, whether or not it is a commercial success. And I do not mean to insinuate that I do not like the album, because I do like it. I just believe that the Band has gone beyond the need for commercialism and so things like the Grammy award are nice but they won't really affect the Band's future.
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | NOOOO....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band....I won't give credit to a group who prefered fame and fortune over the real escence of music...sorry...but I can't...that's not selling more cd's by hardworking...that's selling more cd's because they left their roots and their true personality to do what the industry wants them to do...and that's something a real band would never do!!...that's not what made metallica famous...now they became shitallica...Who's the master of puppets now???huh???not you metallica...that's for sure!!! (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM)
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:52:51 PM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Monday, February 09, 2009 1:52:41 PM | |
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I hate the term "sell out". So many terrible connotations associated with it. I do not think that Turbo is a "sell out". I would not rank it as one of my top five, but it is OK. It was what they did at that time and they were very commercially relevant at the time, if you recall. Very much so. Turbo was an attempt to remain there, as far as I can see. I do not see it as selling out, though.
For me, AoR was more of a "return" to what it is they do. Not so much as Painkiller, but then, Painkiller is a classic. I really do not think that Priest concern themselves with what the "industry" wants, otherwise we would be listening to a Priest-Rap album by now. Or Priest - Hip Hop. THAT would be selling out! No, I think that Judas Priest are (and rightfully so) of the opinion that they are "above" that kind of thinking. Doing what is commercially required is not for them. They are at a point where they can do what they want to do and if sales are low, no one is going to be trading in the Bently for a Neon, you know?
Priest do not need to sell five million albums a year and win ten Grammys to be relevant. They have paid their dues, influenced their genre (really influenced), and secured their status and legends. They are in the unique and quite wonderful position of doing whatever they fancy and the mortgage still gets paid on time. Very few reach that level. More importantly, they do not have to "re-invent' themselves as so many "Pop" artists must in order to be viable as entertainers and artists to a moronic public. That kind of crap is for the Britney Spears' of the world. Those with very little substance and an overload of marketing hype.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, February 09, 2009 1:31:01 PM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | but, how do we know they are doing what they want? Turbo, was that a sell out? lots say so, I like it, but who am I. AOR was awesome, yet sold squat. is nost a gimick to sell more?
do they want to sell more? are they doing what they want, or what the industry wants? is selling out what they want? could they do some comercial crap? probably, but no one would buy it. they are known for doing what they do, not for "popular (read music lots of people like) music"
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | I see your point...I got it...but priest(after rob's return) kept doing whatever they wanted...you can see it with the last two albums....of course a band needs to sell their products...otherwise they would be unknown...and we fans would be disapointed and furious if we couldn't get their music....guitars and other stuff are not for free and they also need to eat...but metallica changed to a comercial band,they lost their identity...they lost that thing that made us like their music...and of course they turned their back to their real fans...on the other hand priest keeps trying new things, and nostradamus is a piece of evidence...for those who like it(i like it) and for those who don't
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I see. Well pao, win or lose, like or dislike, it is still about selling and making money. I admire your allegiance to Metal. I really do. Unfortunately, marketing and sales is what this whole show was about. Now then, on to your other post;
It is interesting that you would put it this way. ....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band.... As much as our dear friend Mr. Uno may take exception to what I am going to say, isn't that what Priest did with Ripper? They wanted to stay commercially viable and turned from what made them who they are/were. Jugulator is a great example. Not "Priest" sounding at all, as far as I am concerned. Very much like the grinding, crunchy "Nu-Metal" sound that is more commercial and sells more. They were trying to keep the cash coming in. Trying to remain relevant in the face of a HUGE change.
Of course, there are some that may point to Rob's return as a commercial gimmick. I can accept that. Say what you will but Priest, as with any other act, want to sell their records. That is what they do. It is how they make a living. For me, and most fans of the Band, Rob is what makes Priest. He is THE voice so I do not view his return as previously mentioned but I can see where some might make that connection. Anyway, it all comes down to selling the product. I don't think that Judas Priest are in a position at this stage of their career where they really need money..I mean gazillions. They certainly enjoy a comfortable lifestyle, I'm sure. I think Nostradamus is a good example of that. They did something they wanted to do, whether or not it is a commercial success. And I do not mean to insinuate that I do not like the album, because I do like it. I just believe that the Band has gone beyond the need for commercialism and so things like the Grammy award are nice but they won't really affect the Band's future.
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | NOOOO....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band....I won't give credit to a group who prefered fame and fortune over the real escence of music...sorry...but I can't...that's not selling more cd's by hardworking...that's selling more cd's because they left their roots and their true personality to do what the industry wants them to do...and that's something a real band would never do!!...that's not what made metallica famous...now they became shitallica...Who's the master of puppets now???huh???not you metallica...that's for sure!!! (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM)
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:52:51 PM |
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| [Cooper Ryback] Monday, February 09, 2009 1:51:52 PM | |
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What do you think Priest did with Turbo? If that wasn't a commerical sell out then what was. There's not a lot of metal songs on Nostradamus either. Not a lot of metal on that cd. Maybe 3 or 4 songs. Metallica won so they deserve credit.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by paorcamp from Monday, February 09, 2009 12:28:40 PM)| | | paorcamp wrote: | | NOOOO....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band....I won't give credit to a group who prefered fame and fortune over the real escence of music...sorry...but I can't...that's not selling more cd's by hardworking...that's selling more cd's because they left their roots and their true personality to do what the industry wants them to do...and that's something a real band would never do!!...that's not what made metallica famous...now they became shitallica...Who's the master of puppets now???huh???not you metallica...that's for sure!!! (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM)
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:52:51 PM |
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| [Head banger] Monday, February 09, 2009 1:49:26 PM | |
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it could be, who knows. we shouldnt asume we know what they want or are trying to do.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by paorcamp from Monday, February 09, 2009 1:47:14 PM)| | | paorcamp wrote: | | well...you may be right...but if they're doing what the industry wants them to do..then why aren't them taken into account???and if they are doing what the industry wants...then thank God is not as bad as metallica's task...and if what they want is to sell as much as metallica...they are doing it wrong...
| | | Head banger wrote: | | but, how do we know they are doing what they want? Turbo, was that a sell out? lots say so, I like it, but who am I. AOR was awesome, yet sold squat. is nost a gimick to sell more?
do they want to sell more? are they doing what they want, or what the industry wants? is selling out what they want? could they do some comercial crap? probably, but no one would buy it. they are known for doing what they do, not for "popular (read music lots of people like) music"
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | I see your point...I got it...but priest(after rob's return) kept doing whatever they wanted...you can see it with the last two albums....of course a band needs to sell their products...otherwise they would be unknown...and we fans would be disapointed and furious if we couldn't get their music....guitars and other stuff are not for free and they also need to eat...but metallica changed to a comercial band,they lost their identity...they lost that thing that made us like their music...and of course they turned their back to their real fans...on the other hand priest keeps trying new things, and nostradamus is a piece of evidence...for those who like it(i like it) and for those who don't
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I see. Well pao, win or lose, like or dislike, it is still about selling and making money. I admire your allegiance to Metal. I really do. Unfortunately, marketing and sales is what this whole show was about. Now then, on to your other post;
It is interesting that you would put it this way. ....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band.... As much as our dear friend Mr. Uno may take exception to what I am going to say, isn't that what Priest did with Ripper? They wanted to stay commercially viable and turned from what made them who they are/were. Jugulator is a great example. Not "Priest" sounding at all, as far as I am concerned. Very much like the grinding, crunchy "Nu-Metal" sound that is more commercial and sells more. They were trying to keep the cash coming in. Trying to remain relevant in the face of a HUGE change.
Of course, there are some that may point to Rob's return as a commercial gimmick. I can accept that. Say what you will but Priest, as with any other act, want to sell their records. That is what they do. It is how they make a living. For me, and most fans of the Band, Rob is what makes Priest. He is THE voice so I do not view his return as previously mentioned but I can see where some might make that connection. Anyway, it all comes down to selling the product. I don't think that Judas Priest are in a position at this stage of their career where they really need money..I mean gazillions. They certainly enjoy a comfortable lifestyle, I'm sure. I think Nostradamus is a good example of that. They did something they wanted to do, whether or not it is a commercial success. And I do not mean to insinuate that I do not like the album, because I do like it. I just believe that the Band has gone beyond the need for commercialism and so things like the Grammy award are nice but they won't really affect the Band's future.
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | NOOOO....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band....I won't give credit to a group who prefered fame and fortune over the real escence of music...sorry...but I can't...that's not selling more cd's by hardworking...that's selling more cd's because they left their roots and their true personality to do what the industry wants them to do...and that's something a real band would never do!!...that's not what made metallica famous...now they became shitallica...Who's the master of puppets now???huh???not you metallica...that's for sure!!! (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM)
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:52:51 PM |
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| [paorcamp] Monday, February 09, 2009 1:47:14 PM | |
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well...you may be right...but if they're doing what the industry wants them to do..then why haven't them been taken into account???and if they are doing what the industry wants...then thank God is not as bad as metallica's task...and if what they want is to sell as much as metallica...they are doing it wrong... [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Monday, February 09, 2009 1:31:01 PM)
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Head banger wrote: |
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but, how do we know they are doing what they want? Turbo, was that a sell out? lots say so, I like it, but who am I. AOR was awesome, yet sold squat. is nost a gimick to sell more?
do they want to sell more? are they doing what they want, or what the industry wants? is selling out what they want? could they do some comercial crap? probably, but no one would buy it. they are known for doing what they do, not for "popular (read music lots of people like) music"
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paorcamp wrote: |
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I see your point...I got it...but priest(after rob's return) kept doing whatever they wanted...you can see it with the last two albums....of course a band needs to sell their products...otherwise they would be unknown...and we fans would be disapointed and furious if we couldn't get their music....guitars and other stuff are not for free and they also need to eat...but metallica changed to a comercial band,they lost their identity...they lost that thing that made us like their music...and of course they turned their back to their real fans...on the other hand priest keeps trying new things, and nostradamus is a piece of evidence...for those who like it(i like it) and for those who don't
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Deep Freeze wrote: |
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I see. Well pao, win or lose, like or dislike, it is still about selling and making money. I admire your allegiance to Metal. I really do. Unfortunately, marketing and sales is what this whole show was about. Now then, on to your other post;
It is interesting that you would put it this way. ....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band.... As much as our dear friend Mr. Uno may take exception to what I am going to say, isn't that what Priest did with Ripper? They wanted to stay commercially viable and turned from what made them who they are/were. Jugulator is a great example. Not "Priest" sounding at all, as far as I am concerned. Very much like the grinding, crunchy "Nu-Metal" sound that is more commercial and sells more. They were trying to keep the cash coming in. Trying to remain relevant in the face of a HUGE change.
Of course, there are some that may point to Rob's return as a commercial gimmick. I can accept that. Say what you will but Priest, as with any other act, want to sell their records. That is what they do. It is how they make a living. For me, and most fans of the Band, Rob is what makes Priest. He is THE voice so I do not view his return as previously mentioned but I can see where some might make that connection. Anyway, it all comes down to selling the product. I don't think that Judas Priest are in a position at this stage of their career where they really need money..I mean gazillions. They certainly enjoy a comfortable lifestyle, I'm sure. I think Nostradamus is a good example of that. They did something they wanted to do, whether or not it is a commercial success. And I do not mean to insinuate that I do not like the album, because I do like it. I just believe that the Band has gone beyond the need for commercialism and so things like the Grammy award are nice but they won't really affect the Band's future.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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NOOOO....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band....I won't give credit to a group who prefered fame and fortune over the real escence of music...sorry...but I can't...that's not selling more cd's by hardworking...that's selling more cd's because they left their roots and their true personality to do what the industry wants them to do...and that's something a real band would never do!!...that's not what made metallica famous...now they became shitallica...Who's the master of puppets now???huh???not you metallica...that's for sure!!! (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM)
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:52:51 PM |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:49:30 PM |
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| [Head banger] Monday, February 09, 2009 1:31:01 PM | |
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but, how do we know they are doing what they want? Turbo, was that a sell out? lots say so, I like it, but who am I. AOR was awesome, yet sold squat. is nost a gimick to sell more?
do they want to sell more? are they doing what they want, or what the industry wants? is selling out what they want? could they do some comercial crap? probably, but no one would buy it. they are known for doing what they do, not for "popular (read music lots of people like) music"
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by paorcamp from Monday, February 09, 2009 1:07:13 PM)| | | paorcamp wrote: | | I see your point...I got it...but priest(after rob's return) kept doing whatever they wanted...you can see it with the last two albums....of course a band needs to sell their products...otherwise they would be unknown...and we fans would be disapointed and furious if we couldn't get their music....guitars and other stuff are not for free and they also need to eat...but metallica changed to a comercial band,they lost their identity...they lost that thing that made us like their music...and of course they turned their back to their real fans...on the other hand priest keeps trying new things, and nostradamus is a piece of evidence...for those who like it(i like it) and for those who don't
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I see. Well pao, win or lose, like or dislike, it is still about selling and making money. I admire your allegiance to Metal. I really do. Unfortunately, marketing and sales is what this whole show was about. Now then, on to your other post;
It is interesting that you would put it this way. ....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band.... As much as our dear friend Mr. Uno may take exception to what I am going to say, isn't that what Priest did with Ripper? They wanted to stay commercially viable and turned from what made them who they are/were. Jugulator is a great example. Not "Priest" sounding at all, as far as I am concerned. Very much like the grinding, crunchy "Nu-Metal" sound that is more commercial and sells more. They were trying to keep the cash coming in. Trying to remain relevant in the face of a HUGE change.
Of course, there are some that may point to Rob's return as a commercial gimmick. I can accept that. Say what you will but Priest, as with any other act, want to sell their records. That is what they do. It is how they make a living. For me, and most fans of the Band, Rob is what makes Priest. He is THE voice so I do not view his return as previously mentioned but I can see where some might make that connection. Anyway, it all comes down to selling the product. I don't think that Judas Priest are in a position at this stage of their career where they really need money..I mean gazillions. They certainly enjoy a comfortable lifestyle, I'm sure. I think Nostradamus is a good example of that. They did something they wanted to do, whether or not it is a commercial success. And I do not mean to insinuate that I do not like the album, because I do like it. I just believe that the Band has gone beyond the need for commercialism and so things like the Grammy award are nice but they won't really affect the Band's future.
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | NOOOO....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band....I won't give credit to a group who prefered fame and fortune over the real escence of music...sorry...but I can't...that's not selling more cd's by hardworking...that's selling more cd's because they left their roots and their true personality to do what the industry wants them to do...and that's something a real band would never do!!...that's not what made metallica famous...now they became shitallica...Who's the master of puppets now???huh???not you metallica...that's for sure!!! (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM)
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:52:51 PM |
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| [paorcamp] Monday, February 09, 2009 1:07:13 PM | |
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I see your point...I got it...but priest(after rob's return) kept doing whatever they wanted...you can see it with the last two albums....of course a band needs to sell their products...otherwise they would be unknown...and we fans would be disapointed and furious if we couldn't get their music....guitars and other stuff are not for free and they also need to eat...but metallica changed to a comercial band,they lost their identity...they lost that thing that made us like their music...and of course they turned their back to their real fans...on the other hand priest keeps trying new things, and nostradamus is a piece of evidence...for those who like it(i like it) and for those who don't
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Monday, February 09, 2009 12:56:46 PM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I see. Well pao, win or lose, like or dislike, it is still about selling and making money. I admire your allegiance to Metal. I really do. Unfortunately, marketing and sales is what this whole show was about. Now then, on to your other post;
It is interesting that you would put it this way. ....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band.... As much as our dear friend Mr. Uno may take exception to what I am going to say, isn't that what Priest did with Ripper? They wanted to stay commercially viable and turned from what made them who they are/were. Jugulator is a great example. Not "Priest" sounding at all, as far as I am concerned. Very much like the grinding, crunchy "Nu-Metal" sound that is more commercial and sells more. They were trying to keep the cash coming in. Trying to remain relevant in the face of a HUGE change.
Of course, there are some that may point to Rob's return as a commercial gimmick. I can accept that. Say what you will but Priest, as with any other act, want to sell their records. That is what they do. It is how they make a living. For me, and most fans of the Band, Rob is what makes Priest. He is THE voice so I do not view his return as previously mentioned but I can see where some might make that connection. Anyway, it all comes down to selling the product. I don't think that Judas Priest are in a position at this stage of their career where they really need money..I mean gazillions. They certainly enjoy a comfortable lifestyle, I'm sure. I think Nostradamus is a good example of that. They did something they wanted to do, whether or not it is a commercial success. And I do not mean to insinuate that I do not like the album, because I do like it. I just believe that the Band has gone beyond the need for commercialism and so things like the Grammy award are nice but they won't really affect the Band's future.
| | | paorcamp wrote: | | NOOOO....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band....I won't give credit to a group who prefered fame and fortune over the real escence of music...sorry...but I can't...that's not selling more cd's by hardworking...that's selling more cd's because they left their roots and their true personality to do what the industry wants them to do...and that's something a real band would never do!!...that's not what made metallica famous...now they became shitallica...Who's the master of puppets now???huh???not you metallica...that's for sure!!! (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM)
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:52:51 PM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Monday, February 09, 2009 12:56:46 PM | |
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I see. Well pao, win or lose, like or dislike, it is still about selling and making money. I admire your allegiance to Metal. I really do. Unfortunately, marketing and sales is what this whole show was about. Now then, on to your other post;
It is interesting that you would put it this way. ....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band.... As much as our dear friend Mr. Uno may take exception to what I am going to say, isn't that what Priest did with Ripper? They wanted to stay commercially viable and turned from what made them who they are/were. Jugulator is a great example. Not "Priest" sounding at all, as far as I am concerned. Very much like the grinding, crunchy "Nu-Metal" sound that is more commercial and sells more. They were trying to keep the cash coming in. Trying to remain relevant in the face of a HUGE change.
Of course, there are some that may point to Rob's return as a commercial gimmick. I can accept that. Say what you will but Priest, as with any other act, want to sell their records. That is what they do. It is how they make a living. For me, and most fans of the Band, Rob is what makes Priest. He is THE voice so I do not view his return as previously mentioned but I can see where some might make that connection. Anyway, it all comes down to selling the product. I don't think that Judas Priest are in a position at this stage of their career where they really need money..I mean gazillions. They certainly enjoy a comfortable lifestyle, I'm sure. I think Nostradamus is a good example of that. They did something they wanted to do, whether or not it is a commercial success. And I do not mean to insinuate that I do not like the album, because I do like it. I just believe that the Band has gone beyond the need for commercialism and so things like the Grammy award are nice but they won't really affect the Band's future.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by paorcamp from Monday, February 09, 2009 12:28:40 PM)| | | paorcamp wrote: | | NOOOO....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band....I won't give credit to a group who prefered fame and fortune over the real escence of music...sorry...but I can't...that's not selling more cd's by hardworking...that's selling more cd's because they left their roots and their true personality to do what the industry wants them to do...and that's something a real band would never do!!...that's not what made metallica famous...now they became shitallica...Who's the master of puppets now???huh???not you metallica...that's for sure!!! (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM)
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:52:51 PM |
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| [paorcamp] Monday, February 09, 2009 12:34:23 PM | |
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DF...you're right....we're not complaining about winning or not the prize...we're doing it because we don't like the way it is...and metallica may be having more people during their public presentations...but those who go are not real metal-heads....they can't say they love heavy metal just because they went to a metallica's show...I'm not saying all of them,but most of them...because if you see even old metallica fans say that their band is lost....maybe forever...
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:52:16 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Well put, Soy. I have to agree there. It does not amount to much as far as we, the loyal fans, are concerned. I think HB hit it on the head, though. Marketing. I had really not considered it exactly the way he stated it, but he is correct. The Grammys, as with any "awards" show, is about selling the product. While Priest are certainly legendary, it is also true that they do not have the sizeable fanbase they had in the 80's. They are not going to help the record industry sell more product like a Metallica would. Very well said, HB.
Perhaps Uno is on to something as well? Maybe Priest did not "deserve" to win. Of course, we have to go back to exactly what it is that was at stake. Recognition? Maybe. Acknowledgement from peers? Possibly. Marketing power? Certainly. Metallica continue to draw a very large crowd when they play. Priest do not. At least not here in the US, from what I have seen. The Vegas show was OK.. maybe two or three thousand fans. The venue was small I admit, but we saw them in So Cal on the AoR tour and the Irvine venue had maybe five to eight thousand at most. Point is, they do not draw like they used to. Certainly not going to fill a large arena like they did in the "old" days.
My complaint is not really about Priest missing out on the award as it is the overall representation of the industry by complete nimrods. The Pop Music world has always been this way for me. The public sucks, plain and simple. People that buy this garbage are idiots. They would not know musical talent if it was drawn out and labeled for them. But it sells and industry officials go where the money is, no doubt. You may not care for old Clive, but that man is a friggin genius as far as marketing this crap. He has the kids by the short hairs and knows how to pull.
Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 11:58:10 AM |
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| [paorcamp] Monday, February 09, 2009 12:28:40 PM | |
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NOOOO....I refuse to give credit to a band which turned its back to heavy metal to become a heavy comercial band....I won't give credit to a group who prefered fame and fortune over the real escence of music...sorry...but I can't...that's not selling more cd's by hardworking...that's selling more cd's because they left their roots and their true personality to do what the industry wants them to do...and that's something a real band would never do!!...that's not what made metallica famous...now they became shitallica...Who's the master of puppets now???huh???not you metallica...that's for sure!!! [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM)
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
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paorcamp wrote: |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
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Numero Uno wrote: |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:52:51 PM |
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| [Deep Freeze] Monday, February 09, 2009 11:52:16 AM | |
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Well put, Soy. I have to agree there. It does not amount to much as far as we, the loyal fans, are concerned. I think HB hit it on the head, though. Marketing. I had really not considered it exactly the way he stated it, but he is correct. The Grammys, as with any "awards" show, is about selling the product. While Priest are certainly legendary, it is also true that they do not have the sizeable fanbase they had in the 80's. They are not going to help the record industry sell more product like a Metallica would. Very well said, HB.
Perhaps Uno is on to something as well? Maybe Priest did not "deserve" to win. Of course, we have to go back to exactly what it is that was at stake. Recognition? Maybe. Acknowledgement from peers? Possibly. Marketing power? Certainly. Metallica continue to draw a very large crowd when they play. Priest do not. At least not here in the US, from what I have seen. The Vegas show was OK.. maybe two or three thousand fans. The venue was small I admit, but we saw them in So Cal on the AoR tour and the Irvine venue had maybe five to eight thousand at most. Point is, they do not draw like they used to. Certainly not going to fill a large arena like they did in the "old" days.
My complaint is not really about Priest missing out on the award as it is the overall representation of the industry by complete nimrods. The Pop Music world has always been this way for me. The public sucks, plain and simple. People that buy this garbage are idiots. They would not know musical talent if it was drawn out and labeled for them. But it sells and industry officials go where the money is, no doubt. You may not care for old Clive, but that man is a friggin genius as far as marketing this crap. He has the kids by the short hairs and knows how to pull.
Edited at: Monday, February 09, 2009 11:58:10 AM |
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| [Cooper Ryback] Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40:39 AM | |
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GIve Tallica credit, they won the award. They sell more cd's anyway.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by paorcamp from Monday, February 09, 2009 10:18:47 AM)| | | paorcamp wrote: | | eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
| | | Numero Uno wrote: | | | Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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| [Soylentgreen4u] Monday, February 09, 2009 11:18:34 AM | |
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DON'T QUITE GET ALL THE FUROR HERE OVER THE  GRAMMYS....WHAT THE HELL DID MOST OF YOU EXPECT?...AS A PRIEST FAN SINCE '77,I COULD CARE LESS IF THEY WON ONE OF THOSE THINGYS...I'LL ALWAYS REMEMBER THE MIGHTY PRIEST FOR THE DEFENDERS TOUR...
SFV TOUR...'PAINKILLER' LIVE POUNDING ON OUR CHESTS...BRITISH STEEL...HELL BENT...THE
LEATHER...THE STUDS...THAT VOICE!!!!!!!!!...MEETING THEM FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE MID 80's...ALL THE GREAT METAL FANS I'VE MET OVER THE YEARS AT THE SHOWS...ROCKA ROLLA ON THROUGH...YEAH,LIKE I WAS HOPING I COULD TALK METAL MUSIC NEXT TIME WITH OTHER FANS AND SAY "I'M A PRIEST FAN BABY,AND THEY WON A GRAMMY SO THERE!".....I DON'T THINK SO!
WE'RE THEY EVEN THERE LAST NIGHT?..I'LL BET NOT,WHAT,THEY SENT TRAVIS TO SIT THROUGH THIS SHIT?...HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!....SMART MOVE BY THE VETS OF THE TEAM I SAY... DO ANY OF YOU REALLY THINK THEY CARE IF THEY WON?
JUDAS PRIEST IS SCREEEEEEEAMING METAL IN MY BOOKS...NOT HIPPITY,HOPPITY,I WON A GRAMMPY,GRIMMPY,GRAMMY.
NO GRAMMMPY  ....OHH NOOOO....WHERE'S MY PAIN....PAIN...KILLERS...KILLERS...
CAN'T STOP THE 'PAINKILLER'.... ..... 
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| [kitty12] Monday, February 09, 2009 10:52:44 AM | |
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| I tried to watch the Grammys, and after a very short period of time, I couldn'take it any longer. Coldplay's Vida La whatever has been dubbed a "masterpiece." I guess I don't get it. I think it is terrible. I knew that JP was not going to win. It's the Grammys for pete's sake. There is just not a place for them on these kinds of award shows. It is based on what sold according to the Billboard Top 100. Or what store the artists/group decided to mainly sell out of. I did enjoy Paul MCartney w/ David Grole on drums and Radiohead w/ the USC band. Other than that I didn't see anything that kept me tuned in. |
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| [paorcamp] Monday, February 09, 2009 10:21:56 AM | |
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| [paorcamp] Monday, February 09, 2009 10:18:47 AM | |
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eh...what kind of priest fan could ever say something like that!!!??
are you ok???If priest didn't deserve it...why would metallica do!!??
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Numero Uno from Monday, February 09, 2009 10:12:50 AM)| | | Numero Uno wrote: | | | Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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| [~ MG_Metalgoddess~] Monday, February 09, 2009 10:16:31 AM | |
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The meaning is that Judas Priest's Music speaks for itself!!!!!!!!!!!
Grammy or no-grammy....
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by paorcamp from Monday, February 09, 2009 10:09:32 AM)| | | paorcamp wrote: | | | maybe I don't get it...but I think that in the grammys both, music and words failed... |
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| [Cooper Ryback] Monday, February 09, 2009 10:12:50 AM | |
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| Lots of sour grapes in here. Maybe Priest didn't win because they just didn't deserve to. |
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| [paorcamp] Monday, February 09, 2009 10:09:32 AM | |
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| maybe I don't get it...but I think that in the grammys both, music and words failed... |
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| [~ MG_Metalgoddess~] Monday, February 09, 2009 10:07:32 AM | |
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ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS.......................ABOUT THE GRAMMYS
MG~
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| [Head banger] Monday, February 09, 2009 9:54:21 AM | |
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Perhaps too we should consider what the awards are for. They are realy a marketing tool. sell records. now where does the industry get the most bang for the award? not in metal, thats for sure. and within metal, priest isnt going to shift a ton of albums if they win. metalica, well they sell lots, so....
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Monday, February 09, 2009 9:17:54 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Wow. I just spent the better part of twenty minutes back reading and I must say, there has not been this kind of activity in a long time. Interesting that it takes this type of event to bring out such an emotional reaction! I guess the Grammys are good for something!
I tried, I reall tried. I sat through the most excruciating 52 minutes of my life before I could stand no more..and that was just the "red carpet"!! I just could not watch the actual show, although I did tune in for a moment at the beginning. Saw Whitney stumble up and begin to babble and that is where I finally gave up. I just couldn't do it. Priest or no Priest.
It does not surprise me that our beloved boys were not winners. The longer I listened to the "artists" that tried to speak (in what language, I am not sure) the more I realized what the "industry" has become. I mean, it has never been a bastion of intellect, but clearly there is a severe lack of brain cells in music today. Of course, there is NO shortage of self-indugence and hype. Perhaps (as usual) it is a by-product of my age but I simply cannot sit and watch these evolutionarily-stifled beings mumble and bumble their way across the screen. Then there are the "hosts"...arrrrrggghhhh.
I cannot help but wonder; had Priest won, would there be as much bitterness or disdain for this show? I think , for our group at least, it may have softened an already terrible experience but I am almost sure we would still look at this for what it is; garbage. I do not understand the "voting" process, so I cannot comment on the who, but the what is obvious. There are people in music today that have NO business doing anything outside of washing cars or delivering something.
Anyway, I am really happy to see so much passion and excitement. All this activity proves we are still here and we are still viable!!
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....got it 