| [_strat_] Saturday, November 29, 2008 4:06:37 PM | |
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Um... Nope, didnt get any of that. WTF is "verbose"?
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:06:48 AM)| |  | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Good Morning, boys and girls! Sometime around half past four here in Las Vegas and we are ready for our latest edition of Insomniac Theater! I see we have had considerable discussion regarding our last topic, profanity. Well done! As was expected, our rather verbose classmate strat has raised some challenging issues and we should address this in our own, special way. Please follow along and prepare to review;
Last time, we talked about profanity's effect on others as well as it's place, if any, in our language. After much discussion, I am compelled to address this debate thusly: Just what does the writer owe to the hypothetical reader? And what, in all good conscience, does a writer owe to himself? These questions concern not only the professional writer, but certainly the writer here among us as well as everyone that writes a letter, speaks to a group or attempts to teach an adolescent a life-lesson. The true purpose of language to to convey a message from writer to reader or from speaker to auditor. And the first requirement is a common language.
It is among the most enduring fascinations of speech that everyone, in some fashion, is a linguist. I know my daughter speaks fluent "computerese". I speak fairly good "finance". Doctors tend to be rather fluent in "medicine" and we all know people that speak "sports". In our daily lives, we tailor our communication to the audience. Most professional writers tend to communicate to their audience as if they are all high school graduates in their most perceptive moments. Some may write to a "higher" audience but, we must resist the temptation to "dumb down" our writing, lest we insult our reader. Afterall, we are not children here, are we? In any event, no one wishes to be spoken to in a condescending manner. Conversely, it is unwise to fire our bolts of wisdom over their heads! Of course, an occasional reference to something otherwise not considered "common knowledge" is a great way to inform the curious reader and should not be avoided.
I tend to believe that the manner in which we write or speak tells others a lot about who we are as a person. Not so much our social status or our worth as a human being. I should think that even the very best among the human race resort to an occasional "F"-bomb, as it were. When I mentioned earlier that I feel it cheapens the message, I was referring to the fact that there are certainly far better ways to express or emphasize a point than turning to an obscene word or two. As I also mentioned previously, I have employed a rather "randy" comment or ten in my lifetime. Again, the point is that I tailor my words to fit my audience. More importantly, I look to ensure that my message meets my standards of deceny. Hmm..perhaps deceny should be on our agenda for a future conversation? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edited at: Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:15:01 AM |
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| [Head banger] Saturday, November 29, 2008 11:48:10 AM | |
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| [Deep Freeze] Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:06:48 AM | |
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Good Morning, boys and girls! Sometime around half past four here in Las Vegas and we are ready for our latest edition of Insomniac Theater! I see we have had considerable discussion regarding our last topic, profanity. Well done! As was expected, our rather verbose classmate strat has raised some challenging issues and we should address this in our own, special way. Please follow along and prepare to review;
Last time, we talked about profanity's effect on others as well as it's place, if any, in our language. After much discussion, I am compelled to address this debate thusly: Just what does the writer owe to the hypothetical reader? And what, in all good conscience, does a writer owe to himself? These questions concern not only the professional writer, but certainly the writer here among us as well as everyone that writes a letter, speaks to a group or attempts to teach an adolescent a life-lesson. The true purpose of language to to convey a message from writer to reader or from speaker to auditor. And the first requirement is a common language.
It is among the most enduring fascinations of speech that everyone, in some fashion, is a linguist. I know my daughter speaks fluent "computerese". I speak fairly good "finance". Doctors tend to be rather fluent in "medicine" and we all know people that speak "sports". In our daily lives, we tailor our communication to the audience. Most professional writers tend to communicate to their audience as if they are all high school graduates in their most perceptive moments. Some may write to a "higher" audience but, we must resist the temptation to "dumb down" our writing, lest we insult our reader. Afterall, we are not children here, are we? In any event, no one wishes to be spoken to in a condescending manner. Conversely, it is unwise to fire our bolts of wisdom over their heads! Of course, an occasional reference to something otherwise not considered "common knowledge" is a great way to inform the curious reader and should not be avoided.
I tend to believe that the manner in which we write or speak tells others a lot about who we are as a person. Not so much our social status or our worth as a human being. I should think that even the very best among the human race resort to an occasional "F"-bomb, as it were. When I mentioned earlier that I feel it cheapens the message, I was referring to the fact that there are certainly far better ways to express or emphasize a point than turning to an obscene word or two. As I also mentioned previously, I have employed a rather "randy" comment or ten in my lifetime. Again, the point is that I tailor my words to fit my audience. More importantly, I look to ensure that my message meets my standards of deceny. Hmm..perhaps deceny should be on our agenda for a future conversation? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edited at: Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:15:01 AM |
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| [devils_child] Friday, November 28, 2008 8:48:16 PM | |
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Yes..... It is my duty to creep people out...  .
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by stratlover from Friday, November 28, 2008 5:11:25 PM)| | | stratlover wrote: | | Ok, a bit of a delay on the response. I had a bit of trouble finding the right post, because of the very amusing conversation you had with DC. And when I say amusing... I actually mean a little bit disturbing.
Well, I definatly have an image of people based on what they say. But the thing is that with you and with other members that Ive known for a long time, that image depends more on the content of what theyre saying, than on how they say it. The way people express themselves here is more of a first immpression thing. At least for me, anyway.
Now, about the immpression that others get from your language... That depends greatly from person to person. I would never consider someone who dosent swear to be more intelligent that someone who does, and Im sure that many people would agree with me on this one. Infact, for me people who wouldnt swear if their life depended on it are exactly the opposite of inteligent. IDK, maybe its just that I always had a bit of an alergy to people who are so sure that their shit doesnt stink, and who think that they are above such common things like swearing and dirty jokes. Not saying that I think youre one of them, of course. Its just that I think that much of this anti-swearing bullshit comes from exactly such people.
Oh, and to return the "little brother"... I imagine you as being one step away from those old guys that keep going on about how it was like "n their day".
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | HA!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh strat! Will you and I ever find common ground? You are like a little brother that simply will NOT stop jabbing! HAHAHAHA!! (kidding, of course). I used the word "cheapen" more as an attempt to illustrate a point rather than actually define. Perhaps ours is simply a cultural difference, strat? I was raised to believe, and still do, that the language one uses and the vocabulary one employs tells others about them. It tells them how educated, dignified and intelligent you are and it allows another to more clearly understand your meaning. Certainly there are many on this Board that have a mental image of who I am based on what they read?
For me, language is far more than simply communicating. That does not mean it must be so for all. You and I have had differences on a variety of subjects and I always find that I come away from them with a bit more knowledge than that with which I came. I learn a bit more about you and, I hope, you do the same with regard to me. In all my 48 years of life, I have endeavored to learn. I hope that I never stop.
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Cheapening? Well, Im not such a great expert in English to judge that, but I will stay with my opinion - language for me is merely a mean for communication, nothing less, nothing more. And therefore, cheapening (or expesnifying, or whatever the fuck would the opposite of cheapening be) is imo completely irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is that the person youre talking to can understand you, and vice versa.
Oh, and you will have to remind me which outburst was that. Izs kinda hard for me to keep track of them all.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You are in no "trouble", my dear. Neither was strat when he jabbed me with his "outburst". All in good fun, I assure you! I think an intellectual discussion every now and again is a good idea. I am pleased to see there is interest!
The thing is, profanity is a part of our language. For better or worse. I have always considered it a form of cheapening the language which we speak, however, I am one of the few. The majority of people seem to believe it is a perfectly acceptable form of communication. Certainly it is to be expected on a "rock band's website", no? I am not the least bit surprised that it is quite popular here among our group. Does not mean that we are any less human. Nor does it mean one is less important or whatever. Nonesense.
I have used foul language. I do so even to this very day. I do NOT use it in front of my mother, grandmother, granchildren or strangers! To me, this is just not done. I also eschew profanity in a public forum, but that is simply because you just never know who may be reading what you write and I would be rather ashamed for certain people to read something like that from me. That is just how I feel. This is a public forum. I do not walk downtown, swearing in front of strangers and I will not do it in a public place. When I am with intimate friends, I might let one or two foul words slip, but that is rare.
I am not attempting to define righteousness through speech. What is "acceptable" to some may not be so to others and so, while in a public forum, I choose to use language that I believe is acceptable to all at all times.
| | | WhiskeyWoman wrote: | | Hey there Strat... oh, he knows I'm a smart-ass! 
Gosh, d'ya think I was hard on Freeze? No, no, no!
Well, shit. It certainly wasn't meant that way!
I really do wonder where swearing to loosen people up, falls into! I'm hoping Freeze understands it to be intellectual banter, is all...
Freeze... I have my pencil out, ready to take notes... eagerly waiting for our next class. Albeit with some trepidation now! Am I in trouble?
(Well, that didn't take long.) |
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| [_strat_] Friday, November 28, 2008 5:11:25 PM | |
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Ok, a bit of a delay on the response. I had a bit of trouble finding the right post, because of the very amusing conversation you had with DC. And when I say amusing... I actually mean a little bit disturbing.
Well, I definatly have an image of people based on what they say. But the thing is that with you and with other members that Ive known for a long time, that image depends more on the content of what theyre saying, than on how they say it. The way people express themselves here is more of a first immpression thing. At least for me, anyway.
Now, about the immpression that others get from your language... That depends greatly from person to person. I would never consider someone who dosent swear to be more intelligent that someone who does, and Im sure that many people would agree with me on this one. Infact, for me people who wouldnt swear if their life depended on it are exactly the opposite of inteligent. IDK, maybe its just that I always had a bit of an alergy to people who are so sure that their shit doesnt stink, and who think that they are above such common things like swearing and dirty jokes. Not saying that I think youre one of them, of course. Its just that I think that much of this anti-swearing bullshit comes from exactly such people.
Oh, and to return the "little brother"... I imagine you as being one step away from those old guys that keep going on about how it was like "n their day".
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Friday, November 28, 2008 8:23:12 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | HA!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh strat! Will you and I ever find common ground? You are like a little brother that simply will NOT stop jabbing! HAHAHAHA!! (kidding, of course). I used the word "cheapen" more as an attempt to illustrate a point rather than actually define. Perhaps ours is simply a cultural difference, strat? I was raised to believe, and still do, that the language one uses and the vocabulary one employs tells others about them. It tells them how educated, dignified and intelligent you are and it allows another to more clearly understand your meaning. Certainly there are many on this Board that have a mental image of who I am based on what they read?
For me, language is far more than simply communicating. That does not mean it must be so for all. You and I have had differences on a variety of subjects and I always find that I come away from them with a bit more knowledge than that with which I came. I learn a bit more about you and, I hope, you do the same with regard to me. In all my 48 years of life, I have endeavored to learn. I hope that I never stop.
| | | stratlover wrote: | | Cheapening? Well, Im not such a great expert in English to judge that, but I will stay with my opinion - language for me is merely a mean for communication, nothing less, nothing more. And therefore, cheapening (or expesnifying, or whatever the fuck would the opposite of cheapening be) is imo completely irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is that the person youre talking to can understand you, and vice versa.
Oh, and you will have to remind me which outburst was that. Izs kinda hard for me to keep track of them all.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | You are in no "trouble", my dear. Neither was strat when he jabbed me with his "outburst". All in good fun, I assure you! I think an intellectual discussion every now and again is a good idea. I am pleased to see there is interest!
The thing is, profanity is a part of our language. For better or worse. I have always considered it a form of cheapening the language which we speak, however, I am one of the few. The majority of people seem to believe it is a perfectly acceptable form of communication. Certainly it is to be expected on a "rock band's website", no? I am not the least bit surprised that it is quite popular here among our group. Does not mean that we are any less human. Nor does it mean one is less important or whatever. Nonesense.
I have used foul language. I do so even to this very day. I do NOT use it in front of my mother, grandmother, granchildren or strangers! To me, this is just not done. I also eschew profanity in a public forum, but that is simply because you just never know who may be reading what you write and I would be rather ashamed for certain people to read something like that from me. That is just how I feel. This is a public forum. I do not walk downtown, swearing in front of strangers and I will not do it in a public place. When I am with intimate friends, I might let one or two foul words slip, but that is rare.
I am not attempting to define righteousness through speech. What is "acceptable" to some may not be so to others and so, while in a public forum, I choose to use language that I believe is acceptable to all at all times.
| | | WhiskeyWoman wrote: | | Hey there Strat... oh, he knows I'm a smart-ass!
Gosh, d'ya think I was hard on Freeze? No, no, no!
Well, shit. It certainly wasn't meant that way!
I really do wonder where swearing to loosen people up, falls into! I'm hoping Freeze understands it to be intellectual banter, is all...
Freeze... I have my pencil out, ready to take notes... eagerly waiting for our next class. Albeit with some trepidation now! Am I in trouble?
(Well, that didn't take long.) |
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| [_strat_] Friday, November 28, 2008 3:42:48 PM | |
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Nope, that wouldnt do. You see, we were all molested at birth, as we crawled out of our mothers private parts.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Friday, November 28, 2008 12:26:38 PM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | yup! next, breast feeding banned as millions of moms flash the infants. must wear panties to give birth???
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | HA!!!!!!!!!!!! Idiotic parents. I have but two words for this; forced sterilization.
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| [_strat_] Friday, November 28, 2008 3:42:00 PM | |
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LOL!! Remember, little children, art is the first step to pornography addiction!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Friday, November 28, 2008 11:55:37 AM) |
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| [Bev] Friday, November 28, 2008 3:11:50 PM | |
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Gosh, HB I'm only back a day and already I'm annoying ... 
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Friday, November 28, 2008 1:20:39 PM)| | | Head banger wrote: | | ignorance is realy anoying to the rest of the population
| | | Bev wrote: | | Perhaps a virtual visit would be a better idea (shrugs) http://www.getty.edu/education/
It's a shame any school district would let an ignorant vocal minority ruin it for the rest. |
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| [Head banger] Friday, November 28, 2008 1:20:39 PM | |
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ignorance is realy anoying to the rest of the population
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Bev from Friday, November 28, 2008 12:49:42 PM)| | | Bev wrote: | | Perhaps a virtual visit would be a better idea (shrugs) http://www.getty.edu/education/
It's a shame any school district would let an ignorant vocal minority ruin it for the rest. |
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| [Bev] Friday, November 28, 2008 12:49:42 PM | |
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Perhaps a virtual visit would be a better idea (shrugs) http://www.getty.edu/education/
It's a shame any school district would let an ignorant vocal minority ruin it for the rest. |
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| [WhiskeyWoman] Friday, November 28, 2008 12:31:46 PM | |
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I'm speechless ... enjoy it while you can! (...doesn't happen too often)
What's next? Regression to book burnings?
Good grief...
(okay, so I'm not *too* speechless...)
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Friday, November 28, 2008 11:55:37 AM) |
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| [Head banger] Friday, November 28, 2008 12:26:38 PM | |
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yup! next, breast feeding banned as millions of moms flash the infants. must wear panties to give birth???
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Friday, November 28, 2008 12:07:02 PM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | HA!!!!!!!!!!!! Idiotic parents. I have but two words for this; forced sterilization.
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| [Deep Freeze] Friday, November 28, 2008 12:07:02 PM | |
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HA!!!!!!!!!!!! Idiotic parents. I have but two words for this; forced sterilization.
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Head banger from Friday, November 28, 2008 11:55:37 AM) |
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| [Head banger] Friday, November 28, 2008 11:55:37 AM | |
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| [devils_child] Friday, November 28, 2008 9:53:36 AM | |
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You know me too well..... 
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Friday, November 28, 2008 9:49:28 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | | HA!!!!!!!!!!!! I was not confused! |
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| [Deep Freeze] Friday, November 28, 2008 9:49:28 AM | |
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| HA!!!!!!!!!!!! I was not confused! |
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| [devils_child] Friday, November 28, 2008 9:46:34 AM | |
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What do I mean select?......... I'm naughty where ever I go..... sorry to confuse anyone...  |
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| [devils_child] Friday, November 28, 2008 9:39:30 AM | |
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Despite what you may think, I do have some decorum about myself........... I'm select in where I use my naughty behaviour and associative language...  ...  ... The devil horns hold up my halo...... hehe
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Friday, November 28, 2008 9:35:53 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Decorum!!! Excellent!!!!
| | | devils_child wrote: | | Haha! Consider yourself lucky I have none of the Sinful Girls with me...... I Am rather mild on the noticeboard......... I do know how to maintain a certain sense of decorum about myself around these parts.....
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh that is quite alright, my dear. You are sufficiently "naughty". I am not certain I can handle an escalation.....
| | | devils_child wrote: | | Hmmmmm "deviltry"  .... let me grab another beer.... I operate the naughtiest under the influence.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh, I am still here with you. Just was waiting to see what deviltry you came up with next!!!!
| | | devils_child wrote: | | The elusive Freeze......... Hey !!! Where'd you go??........... 
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I am quite "drugged" already, my dear. As for the "gag", I promise to be quiet. HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am unrecognizble!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| | | devils_child wrote: | | Just let me drug you and gag you...... all will return to normal in the morning..... I promise. 
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!STOP!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| | | devils_child wrote: | | Damn Freeze....Be quiet... we will end up with a "Confess your sins to Father Freeze" thread....... 
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Yes, my dear. I do. And I am sure there is a Thread wherein you may pay your penance.......
| | | devils_child wrote: | | Forgive me Freeze for I have sinned................. Hahahaha You know what I mean.  |
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| [Deep Freeze] Friday, November 28, 2008 9:35:53 AM | |
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HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Decorum!!! Excellent!!!!
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by devils_child from Friday, November 28, 2008 9:34:24 AM)| | | devils_child wrote: | | Haha! Consider yourself lucky I have none of the Sinful Girls with me...... I Am rather mild on the noticeboard......... I do know how to maintain a certain sense of decorum about myself around these parts.....
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh that is quite alright, my dear. You are sufficiently "naughty". I am not certain I can handle an escalation.....
| | | devils_child wrote: | | Hmmmmm "deviltry" .... let me grab another beer.... I operate the naughtiest under the influence.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh, I am still here with you. Just was waiting to see what deviltry you came up with next!!!!
| | | devils_child wrote: | | The elusive Freeze......... Hey !!! Where'd you go??...........
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I am quite "drugged" already, my dear. As for the "gag", I promise to be quiet. HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am unrecognizble!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| | | devils_child wrote: | | Just let me drug you and gag you...... all will return to normal in the morning..... I promise.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!STOP!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| | | devils_child wrote: | | Damn Freeze....Be quiet... we will end up with a "Confess your sins to Father Freeze" thread.......
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Yes, my dear. I do. And I am sure there is a Thread wherein you may pay your penance.......
| | | devils_child wrote: | | | Forgive me Freeze for I have sinned................. Hahahaha You know what I mean. |
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| [devils_child] Friday, November 28, 2008 9:34:24 AM | |
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Haha! Consider yourself lucky I have none of the Sinful Girls with me...... I Am rather mild on the noticeboard......... I do know how to maintain a certain sense of decorum about myself around these parts.....
[Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Friday, November 28, 2008 9:31:53 AM)| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh that is quite alright, my dear. You are sufficiently "naughty". I am not certain I can handle an escalation.....
| | | devils_child wrote: | | Hmmmmm "deviltry" .... let me grab another beer.... I operate the naughtiest under the influence.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Oh, I am still here with you. Just was waiting to see what deviltry you came up with next!!!!
| | | devils_child wrote: | | The elusive Freeze......... Hey !!! Where'd you go??...........
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | I am quite "drugged" already, my dear. As for the "gag", I promise to be quiet. HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am unrecognizble!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| | | devils_child wrote: | | Just let me drug you and gag you...... all will return to normal in the morning..... I promise.
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!STOP!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| | | devils_child wrote: | | Damn Freeze....Be quiet... we will end up with a "Confess your sins to Father Freeze" thread.......
| | | Deep Freeze wrote: | | Yes, my dear. I do. And I am sure there is a Thread wherein you may pay your penance.......
| | | devils_child wrote: | | | Forgive me Freeze for I have sinned................. Hahahaha You know what I mean. |
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