You should already know I'd disagree w/that statement HB. What with all the stink I made in the past about the pics of nearly nude women posted on this site. It actually does feel very nice to be posting here again. I missed a lot of the people from here while I was absent. However, it doesn't feel the same as before. I'm not the same as before. I thought, maybe a little sarcasm from me would help me. So I gave it a try.
isnt that what the internet is for (except the almost part?)
It's was worth saying to see what kind of response I'd get. To actually contribute in a conversation here again was nice. I believe I almost had an orgasm! (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 6:42:39 PM)
No. Technically you are not the complete "owner" of it. You do not own the intellectual property rights nor copyright to it. You basically bought a license for private, personal use. It is not "yours" to give as a gift.
Nice theory, though. You best read up on RIAA law while you can. I don't think you'll be able to access a computer once they finish with you. www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php
My response to the anti-piracy warning issued by the FBI is this: I bought the cd, dvd etc. I'm the owner of it and all content on it. I therefore "authorize" myself to be able to share it with the world. I do so as a "gift". (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Friday, November 16, 2012 12:03:48 AM)
Ok, then. Despite the huge "FBI Anti-Piracy Warning: Unauthorized copying is punishible under federal law" that is stamped on the back of a cd by the Federal Bureau of Investigation / Department of Justice" you still think it is legal? Do you think the same of a DVD that you copy? How about a book? Would you lump them into the same category as a CD? Don't they, like the electric company, have fixed costs (machinery) plus static costs of distribution, artwork, etc., plus more dynamic costs such as Big Box store discounts, printing, etc.? While I am glad to hear that you paid for SFV, to be honest, your argument makes no sense to me.
Do you think that the production costs of making a DVD, video game, computer OS/software or music are so different? Sure, some cost more, some cost less. Moral is that they all COST. Would you steal a CD from a store? I hope not (at your age...we ignore what we did when we were younger...heh). What possible difference could you make between going into a store and stealing a CD vs. downloading an illegal copy? It is easier?! How about that DVD question. I have been in many a city were you can buy perfect pirate copies on the street. While I can buy it for pennies, is it right? Upstairs I have a couple of Rolex watches I bought in Brazil for about $10USD. Those are certainly fakes but it is a tangible good that someone (typically poor) took time to construct. I would never be able to afford (or want) a Rolex in any case. However, did I steal from Rolex because I bought a knock-off? No. I'd never EVER buy one. Downloading a CD, though, hits closer to home. Rolex won't go out of business because I bought a fake watch. A certain band might not be able to pay bills if their cds don't sell. Pay to support your favorite bands, is my point. The Justin B. / boyband machine will roll us otherwise.
Parting thought? When you "import" a store-bought CD to your harddrive using Media Player you are probably importing in WMV format. Lossy, IOW. No matter. If you legally own the recording, you are fine. The people who download without ever having once paid for the music are both engaging in illegal activities as well as damaging the genre of music we love. Low sales and those bands will go to no-name labels and then disappear. Bieber effect. Pop sells. Metal doesn't. (Quoting Message by Head banger from Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:01:41 PM)
Head banger wrote:
lets leave taxes out, because the government does very little with my money except fuck it all up. your government has a similar record
but your arguments dont make sense to me.
The electric company has 3 costs.
1. the wires to my house
2. the generating plant
3. the maintenance, fuel etc.
then I supose they have administration, managers, envelopes postage, dividends, etc
the first 2 you said are paid for, but they are amortized over a number of years. the third is going to vary.
now on my bill, its actualy laid out this way, and its 3 companies, one to generate, one to transmit, and a third bills it all out.
compare that to say the 30th aniversary release of screaming, which I just bought.
the band recorded this 30 years ago. minimal if any time spent touching it up. the record company has some costs to print, market and distribute the disk. Note I said I purchased the disk. I did download Jugulator a while ago. lost my original.
oh, and the copy protection, I have had one disc in over 10 years that windows media doesnt rip to the hard drive. I dont do anything to defeat it.
Following that logic, why would you pay your bills? Someone mows your lawn or, even better, the electric company that has already run lines to your house has very little actual expense. Don't pay them and it is just their lost revinue. Taxes, What does paying them get you? Will the government collapse if you don't pay? Of course not. Then again, you are speaking more of goods vs. services as all are examples of lost revinue.
Is a CD a good or a service? I think most would argue it is a good. Did people work long hours to produce it? Yes. You just don't see it like you do the person who cuts your lawn. Did people spend a lot of time, effort and talent to produce a CD? Certainly more than the guy that cuts lawns for a living. You just don't know them personally.
So, don't pay your electric bil or your taxes. After all, it is just a matter of lost revinue, isn't it?
Head banger wrote:
the difference is, someone would have an expense to give me a new ring or car. insurance, some rich dude, whatever. here there is no cost (lost revenue isnt the same)
You are right about the first point but only to a degree. There is encryption on most CDs/DVDs/BRs. You an legally make a backup in most countries (provided you own the original) but it is illegal to circumvent the protection! Goofy.
Now your second point. Lost the disc. Well, extrapolate. What if you lost your big, hunkin' diamond pinky ring. You expect to get a new one? Same argument, no? "Hey, I once owned an old Honda Accord but it was stolen. Give me a new one! What? Don't make the same model? Well, I deserve the new model! After all, I paid for it once, right?"
YOU explain the difference.
Head banger wrote:
See to me, I disagree on the moral bit.
if I bought the album, and my laptop has no CD drive its ok for me to download a copy right? if I lost the disc whats the difference?
now the first album I downloaded was fight mutations, and Rob had a free download of it on his site. I dont download much, although our library card now offers 3 free downloads a week from I think sony. havent done that yet.
Yes. It is illegal to download there but it is an odd law. DMCA (American) laws are fighting CRIA (Canadian) laws in Canada. For a while it was legal to download for non-profit but, as it was mostly American music, DMCA wouldn't let go. Look up what happened to "Demonoid." World-wide, they are using US laws to try to go after foreign countries to turn over illegal downloaders and, specifically, uploaders.
Here they are now sending letters through the ISPs about illegal download activities. Especially to the dumb ones that don't know how to hide their IP. Some companies (such as Comcast) gives you a 3 fouls and disconnect sort of letter. In a clandestine move, the US govt is now going after foreign countries using this law as its bullog.
YOUR question is easier. Downloading copyrighted materials is always morally wrong. Uploading will get you caught more than downloading.
Head banger wrote:
I didnt think that it was ilegal to download here. but I doubt I would be fined or prosecuted. was thinking more about right and wrong than the law though.
First answer (varies from country to country) is "yes." In your country if you do not own a physical version (LP, cassette or legally downloaded version) of the item in question then it is illegal and you'll open yourself up to fines and possible jail time (though the latter is unlikely). It would be tried by the feds who would use the "prove you didn't sell it" tactic.
Out of print works the same as books. The fact that it isn't in print doesn't mean it isn't under copyright. Just ask Amazon. Copyright does expire but they are also moving to change that number of years IMO for monitary gain.
Pick up the latest Wired magazine and/or read one of the best current authors on the subject, Quinn Norton. She writes for both Wired and MaximumPC magazines. Her main focus is legal journalism for the digital age.
Head banger wrote:
Just wondering. If you buy an album, lose the disc, then would it still be wrong to download? what about something out of print?