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WHy UK bands are so GOOD
 This Topic was created by [metal12                                                                                             ] Messages per page: 20 50 [100]
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metal / rock is dead in USA?


[soccer star] Saturday, September 10, 2011 12:37:27 AM 

I am from England and i do think we have some of the best bands on the planet but...Demoncat is spot on
about where the origins of our beloved music came from.

[heimda11] Friday, September 09, 2011 8:50:35 PM 
Thank you England for the Magna Carta and Heavy Metal!
[DemonCat] Friday, September 09, 2011 1:35:14 PM 
Heavy Metal is indeed from the UK.

However Rock and Roll originated in the United States of America in the 50's. 10 years before the likes of The Beatles, and The Rolling Stones.

One influenced the other, and R-N-R was influenced by Rhythm and Blues from The U.S.A.

Both country's along with just about every other Country in the World now ROCKS thanks to their influences.

  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by LFKS from Friday, September 09, 2011 9:33:26 AM)
Edited at: Friday, September 09, 2011 1:43:02 PM
[heimda11] Friday, September 09, 2011 10:35:19 AM 
pardon brain cramp, mass American (post-Prohibition) beer is light lager NOT pilsner
[LFKS] Friday, September 09, 2011 9:33:26 AM 
Most of the best rock and metal bands are from UK.
British created Rock 'n Roll.
British created Heavy Metal.

UK Rocks!!
[soul stealer] Friday, September 09, 2011 4:29:41 AM 
i like all the nuclear blast european bands. they really are better than US bands
[heimda11] Thursday, September 08, 2011 12:22:12 PM 
Blue Moon figured it out.  Light, weak, mass marketed pilsner compared with hearty, full-bodied pints on draught from a local pub.
[Blue Moon] Thursday, September 08, 2011 12:02:29 PM 
 There must be something in the beer. 
[heimda11] Thursday, September 08, 2011 10:39:55 AM 
[guidogodoy] Thursday, September 08, 2011 10:27:22 AM 
I'd certainly be more tempted to do #1 had you done #2 ("heh...Beavis, he said...") lol

  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by heimda11 from Thursday, September 08, 2011 10:06:51 AM)
[heimda11] Thursday, September 08, 2011 10:06:51 AM 
LOL, I'm sooo sorry that (1) you actually are wading through my neurotic ramblings and (2) that there aren't proper paragraphs.
[guidogodoy] Thursday, September 08, 2011 9:58:44 AM 

If you truly loved us, you would write with paragraph breaks. I am blind...

  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by heimda11 from Thursday, September 08, 2011 9:46:38 AM)
[heimda11] Thursday, September 08, 2011 9:46:38 AM 
Metal12, throwing more ideas on the table for consideration and evolution.  The foundation of American government is complex.  The U.S. Constitution was only ratified because there was a commitment to develop a Bill of Rights after the revolution.  The first Ten Ammendments are the sacred Bill of Rights (direct evolution of the British Magna Carta - America is SO British and we don't know it - I know it because read too much as a kid).  The very FIRST Ammendment says something like (had this memorized when would protest Reagan and Bush the First as a college student) "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and petition government for redress of greivances." 
The white, male, slave-owning American Founding Fathers (who transcended their flaws to create a miracle) were clearly grounded in Christianity but they were also Free Masons, which adds nuance to the discussion.  (I think Free Masons are the Harlot of Bablylon of which Revelations speaks.) 
The American system clearly protects religious diversity as well as freedom from religion.  Satanic devil worship is also protected by a ruling from the U.S. Supreme Court I guess (although I think they should be viciously prosecuted through anti-trust violations - and I'm so sorry to say this out loud, but I wonder about a Templar "Jihad" against Satanism because I think God is in a war - I know many will trip for all the right reasons when I say that, just being honest about ideas been wrestling with).
Many of the Christians I love I think misunderstand the Founding Fathers intent because they are loyal to God's Law not Man's Law. 
Definately the Founding Fathers trusted in God, but they were building THE system for governance of man by man.
FYI, many Christian Americans think America is a beast of Revelations.  I believe that it doesn't matter who is elected they are all working for a more powerful master that is moving toward the New World Order.  As a Political Science major who was very active in Democratic Party politics, I now have very little to do with system because we are scratching hopelessly at the surface when major change is needed.  In my opinion the only revolution that will truly work is a CONSUMER REVOLUTION.  Capitalism is the hope of mankind - the only system that can replace war.  The only time I see most people get sophisticated is when the money in their wallet is directly affected.  A shrinking world driven by the information age on a J-curve could make a consumer revolution possible.
Sorry to get even weirder, lol, but I love y'all.
[heimda11] Thursday, September 08, 2011 9:10:37 AM 

I've certainly heard discussion of American individualism being both a positive and a negative.  Americans don't maintain community and family like, for example, Mexicans.  I live by a few Mexican families and I marvel at the beauty of their interpersonal relations.  Multi-generational, all about family and dad will come home from work and play with the kids!  Also, much American pop psychology is Hollywood youth driven, while many other cultures are more respectful of their patriarchs and matriarchs.  Don't know British culture that well to say.


[metal12] Wednesday, September 07, 2011 10:43:16 PM 
I have been enjoying the posts in this thread. I personally do not care how the discussion develops. I'd  like it to be very open. It has also been quite educational. And best of all, I get to know more Priest Fans  !!! 

History and culture (environment) does influence people's mind. It also affects how people express their taste in art and music. So as faith and language we speak affect how we behaive. Do you guys think UK is more group oriented culture than the US ? If so, this may be the reason why UK bands seems have developed in the way they did... (got together, exchanged ideas, influenced each other, etc)

Bible is an amazing book. Unfortunately, people has twisted things around for centuries which sometime lead it to a terrible violence. Of course this can be said to any other religion. I am not bashing down on Christianity at all. I also understand that the US constitution was founded based on a Christian faith. Then, gradually it was taken away by their own government. So many freedom has been taken away since then. It seems everything is under the Government control now. Everything is enforced and limited.  The Government, enemy of the State,  and people are voting for them.

This is how I see it in my own selfish way. Please correct me if I am wrong ?

Edited at: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 10:50:47 PM
[DemonCat] Wednesday, September 07, 2011 12:58:44 PM 
I'm sorry that this got off topic. I got caught up in the moment of this discussion. It happens to most of us at times.

Heimda11 check your private message when you get the chance, and have a wonderful day as well, and keep the Defending the faith!
Edited at: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 1:01:09 PM
[DemonCat] Wednesday, September 07, 2011 12:49:30 PM 
The path to Heaven is narrow.
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by heimda11 from Wednesday, September 07, 2011 12:41:33 PM)
[heimda11] Wednesday, September 07, 2011 12:41:33 PM 
United we stand brother and diversity can be the key to health.
[DemonCat] Wednesday, September 07, 2011 12:38:14 PM 
I am no teacher my friend, and I was skimming over your past posts. This could be a grand discussion, and perhaps we could teach/learn together?

  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by heimda11 from Wednesday, September 07, 2011 12:31:13 PM)
[heimda11] Wednesday, September 07, 2011 12:31:13 PM 
Moses was definately the man.  I look forward to learning from you DemonCat.  I'm not technically a Christian but I love Jesus (being more inclined to the Germanic honor traditions which I think directly tie to the Templars - the way to heaven for us I think is our blood sacrifice - honorable death in battle - am quite comfortable, however, going to Hel with the women and children from said tradition - all glory to the Almighty).  I try to not be conflict or "debate" oriented in spiritual discussion because I think God's Law is in every cell and every atom and we do our best through prayer, thought, science to understand.  Have a wonderful day.
[DemonCat] Wednesday, September 07, 2011 12:18:06 PM 
The laws of Moses is what you may be referring to? Of course that is Judaism. I'm ready for such a discussion, but probably best in a different thread, or private. I am Christian in Faith, and it will be a better "government" if we dare look at it as such.   [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by heimda11 from Wednesday, September 07, 2011 11:40:32 AM)
Edited at: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 12:22:25 PM
[heimda11] Wednesday, September 07, 2011 11:40:32 AM 
It is terrible comedy, but have frequently heard, "...and you know what happened to the last guy with a dream." 

Pardon, this might not be the proper thread...

A benevolent monarchy or dictatorship is clearly the most efficient system of government, but as Aristotle taught, all governments are inherently degenerative and the least degenerative system is democracy.

Of late been wrestling with God's Law compared with Man's Law.  I dream of government by the Almighty because we need good management but wonder if it might be our destiny (unless we blaspheme ourselves back into the dark ages) to spread the miracle of our life (made in God's image)  into the stars.  Arguably the highest innate drive is perpetuation of our species.

[DemonCat] Wednesday, September 07, 2011 10:32:28 AM 
Martin Luther King Jr. said it best..."I have a dream". No man made government will ever last for an eternity. Sounds like a dream to me. Keep on dreaming though, it's better than most governments.   [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by heimda11 from Wednesday, September 07, 2011 10:20:36 AM)
Edited at: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 10:36:36 AM
[heimda11] Wednesday, September 07, 2011 10:20:36 AM 

My United States of America is so young compared to many of your nations, cultures or regions.  We lack deep cultural foundations and don't know it.  Importantly, our size, wealth and relative isolation lead us to not care about anything but ourselves.  I've found even the least educated Europeans and global citizens are quantum leaps ahead of most educated Americans when it comes to understanding or even contemplating geo-politics. 

While thumbing through French author Alexis De Toqueville's colonial masterpiece Democracy in America, I was stunned to see that his unbelievably astute depiction of colonial America and Americans was totally relevant two centuries later. 

A miracle happened in the late 1700s, a holy trinity called the Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights.  Although we do not live up to these sacred documents at least we have them!  To my knowledge no other system has a First or a Second Ammendment (free speech, etc. and the right to bear arms).  The only way the One World Government will ever work is if it adopts our system. 

Sorry to shift from music to social analysis but it is all the same discussion.  Oh, my country is flawed and perhaps doomed to mediocre, mercantilist pop culture and unsuccessful empire, but we also, in my opinion, have the hope for and vision of good government by man for eternity.

[metal12] Wednesday, September 07, 2011 9:44:54 AM 
I think in America, music was real and alive in the 50s. Then the 60's hit. British Invasion came. These guys were all friends and exchanged ideas. Americans panicked (well not exactly), and tried to COMPETE with the British. That is where it went wrong....

They started to make music for a wrong reason. imho.
Competition seems to be EVERYTHING in America. More so than any place else on the planet. I think defining identity is very important for American people especially since they are young country. They want AMERICA to be the best (whatever that means to them...) , and be the center of the world attention. They have done well in many ways, but sacrificed in quality a lot .... A LOT.

Edited at: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 9:46:26 AM
[DemonCat] Wednesday, September 07, 2011 7:38:22 AM 
Just to try, and bring the thread back on track...Not that I don't enjoy the history lessons. Are we saying that  British heavy metal may be rooted in the sounds of the Spanish Man-O-Wars cannons ringing their ears?  If so did not the Americas suffer similar sounds in their history?

It must be the music industry's control over what they "think" the people in America want to hear IMO. Of course most everyone in this website would probably agree that they're wrong!
[heimda11] Saturday, September 03, 2011 9:46:53 AM 
Wow didn't know Cortez burned his ships at Veracruz. 

Just to add another element to the story.  When got ill, the next morning had to fly home.  Took a handfull of Immodium A.D. and it shut down all bodily functions completely.  Unbelievable how that stuff works.  Then just had to put one foot in front of another in a fog of pain.  While transferring flights in Mexico City was stumbling through an old-school metal detector at a security checkpoint.  There were numerous submachine gun armed guards at strategic points.  As I walked under it a vision of a Steve Martin comedy where he tossed his gun over the top and caught it on the way down flashed through my head.  Entering I tossed my keys with an arching hook shot over the top of the metal detector and caught them after I passed through.  It was beautiful.  For some reason they didn't tackle me and extend my stay in Mexico at a lovely Mexico City prison.  Got very lucky on that one because there is no way they didn't see me.  Maybe deep down I didn't want to go home yet.  That was one rough trip home.  But can't wait to go back! 
[guidogodoy] Friday, September 02, 2011 7:11:19 PM 
HAAAA!!! Sorry to laugh but that is a damn funny story. Almost reads like a "what not to do when dining in México" list! From ice cubes (most are fine if they have holes in them -  made by an automatic icemaker that has a filter) to eating mole? ¡Uuf! You were better off sticking with the NegrA (feminine word) Modelo and tequila. The salad was a very bad idea unless it was a 5 star hotel but, again, I think you found that one out.

You did know that Cortez burned his ships around the city of Veracruz so his men couldn't retreat, no?

ps. Pictures to come ASAP.
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by heimda11 from Friday, September 02, 2011 10:01:51 AM)
Edited at: Friday, September 02, 2011 7:20:39 PM
[heimda11] Friday, September 02, 2011 10:01:51 AM 

I look forward to reading about Pizzaro.  Glad you made it through the bombings.  During my week in Mexico I ate the local food and had drinks with ice cubes.  Fell in love with mole, chipotle, Negro Modelo, Tres Generaciones tequila and the unbelievable genetic diversity of the dripping hot senioritas.  By the end of my stay mistakenly thought I was gringo that could handle indiginous microbes so feasted upon a fresh salad with tomatoes and goat cheese.  Honestly thought I was going to die.  During feverish hallucinations huddled in the bath tub thought the ancient ones had come for me.  My natural response on my death bed was, "Fuk you!"  Ha.  My point was that Cortez and his boys must've been some tough hombres because I would've been tempted to get the hell out of that strange land after that.  Would love to go back though but might adjust eating and drinking habits a bit.

[jimmyjames] Friday, September 02, 2011 6:40:56 AM 
Looking forward to seeing those pics when you get a chance. I couldn't think of Pizarro's name before, cheers for jogging the memory. I lived over there for a couple of years to too, loved it. Sometimes wish I'd never left.

  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:28:53 PM)
[guidogodoy] Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:28:53 PM 
Nice about your pop. I lived in Spain for a number of years (Salamanca) and work still takes me all around the country regularly. Costa del Sol / Málaga / Torremolinos up to Pamplona / Logroño usually. I was there when ETA declared their last "cease fire" and, luckily, just missed the bombings of the train stations in Madrid that essentially ousted Aznar from an almost certain re-election. I was still in country but had gone to Toledo for the week.

I'll have to remember this thread. I just missed being blown across the street by the bombings of a British Airlines office in downtown Madrid. My first thought? Grab my Kodak instamatic camera and snap some shots! I have two plus the newspaper clipping as it hit the international news quickly. Amazingly so as it was pre-cable.

BTW, PIZARRO was the true badass in the Conquest. When he takes the Inca, they knew he was coming. 

  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by jimmyjames from Thursday, September 01, 2011 10:55:11 PM)
[jimmyjames] Thursday, September 01, 2011 10:55:11 PM 

They were definately one of the best sailing to foreign lands and wiping out the primitive, indigenous inhabitants. Kudos must go to Hernando Cortez and co, they really set the benchmark. 

I would like to see that photo. While I was there you would hear about a car being blown up in Madrid or something quite regularly on the news. It's pretty terrible to have that going on in such a great country. My dad is actually on holiday over there at the moment.

  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Thursday, September 01, 2011 4:48:53 PM)
[heimda11] Thursday, September 01, 2011 5:57:06 PM 
I'm under the impression Poseiden put a hurt on the Spanish Armada, but they limped through the storms still much mightier than the Royal Navy.  The Brits sailed into crowds of Spanish galleons so the Spanish cannons were hitting each other in order to hit the English.  Horrible to think marines put sand on the decks to maintain footing in the rivers of blood. 

When it comes to genocide and colonialism we must give the Spaniards there due!  It is very true they aren't speaking French or English throughout the entire South and Central Americas. 

BUT if we are going to (for the sake of twisted comedy) pick on a culture for lacking effectiveness in warfare, the modern Italians are atop the list.  Oh I love Italian women, marinara and a dry merlot, but they didn't represent their bloodlust well in WWI and WWII.  Especially considerting they ruled the western world for 2,000 years (half with Rome and half with the Vatican),  I certainly blame Mussolini and Fiat but damn the English absolutely whipped them in the African theater forcing the Germans to send in real troops to keep things, um, more interesting.

Human history is so brutal that if we didn't laugh we would cry.
[heimda11] Thursday, September 01, 2011 5:35:08 PM 

Hahaha, dude, you rock!

[guidogodoy] Thursday, September 01, 2011 4:48:53 PM 
HAAA!! Hey, now. What about their Civil Wars? They fought them (and, as some would argue, are STILL fighting them) for decades if not centuries! One even ended with the beautiful (he says jokingly) union of the Catholic Monarchs that finally united Castilla-León with their arch enemies in Aragón. How about the Basque Separatists? The vasquense have been bombing the hell out of the federalist government for eons. I was almost blown up in one of their damn attacks (I have great photos of that one!).

Kidding aside, the Spanish Armada was the dominant maritime force throughout the 15th and into the 16th centuries. Only true rival was Portugal at the time which, of course, was already part of Iberian Peninsula. In all my travels, I don't bump into many English-speakers in Central or South America. Carlos V (I) was both the King of Spain and Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire. As they say "during his reign, the sun never set on his empire." Clearly the first world Empire. Not too many Romans made it across the sea.

Fickle finger of fate did hit them but it was also accompanied by hyperinflation and huge debt at home. Kinda sounds like the USA. Still, your comment makes me think of the greay Sargent Hartman (R. Lee Ermey - woo hoo!) from Full Metal Jacket and his tirade at Private "Gomer Pile."

To paraphrase: "If God had wanted you up here (on this obstacle), he would have MIRACLED your ass up here by now!" lol  Same could apply to the famous Armada Invencible Española....except that Private Pile had a better commander!

  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by jimmyjames from Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:14:30 PM)
[jimmyjames] Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:14:30 PM 
And the fact that when it comes to war the Spanish are bloody hopeless. Of the 8 or 9 wars they've been involved in in Europe they've lost them all. So I would say regardless of the weather the English would have snotted the Spanish in that one, vastly superior armada or not. Maybe God just stepped in so the inevitable Spanish defeat wouldn't be quite so embarrassing for them.

  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by guidogodoy from Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:52:53 AM)
[guidogodoy] Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:52:53 AM 
I gotta poke my head in here on this one. You DO realize that most historians attribute the massive storms that hit the Spanish Armada to be their downfall, right? It was, by no means, a vastly superior English Naval force nor simply Sir Francis Drake and some amazing English naval strategy.

Blame Poseidon or blame the fact that God was on the side of the Protestants and unleashed a massive storm on them. Fact is, Drake had very little to do with it.

  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by heimda11 from Thursday, September 01, 2011 10:52:36 AM)
[heimda11] Thursday, September 01, 2011 10:52:36 AM 
A tradition of colonialism can lead to interesting assimilation of diverse cultural influences.  The foundation of British rock and pop was greatly influenced by visceral and intellectual American black culture...blues and jazz.  I've also frequently thought Billy Idol represented British seapower without a war.  Any student of history knows the Limeys are nucking futs...Sir Francis Drake and the English Navy defeating the vastly superior Spanish Armada comes to mind. 
[J.D. DIAMOND] Wednesday, August 31, 2011 4:54:58 PM 
I'm not  so sure that there are any new bands from England that are any worthy of quality but in the past? Absolutely. I may even leave out a few bands there are so many but you could start with The Beatles,The Rolling Stones,Deep Purple and a few bands like this, and then Black Sabbath ( solo Ozzy with Randy ) Judas Priest,Iron Maiden,Saxon,Motorhead,Venom are in my opinion England's best bands ever.

  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by metal12 from Tuesday, August 30, 2011 8:37:22 PM)
[metal12] Tuesday, August 30, 2011 8:37:22 PM 
Been listening to music a lot all my life. I MEAN A LOT !!! TONS !!!!!! Everytime when some song or tune or sound deeply grabs my heart, its ALWAYS happen to be coming from BRITISH band. Without knowing their back ground, GOOD ones are all happened to be MADE IN UK ~! 

"WHY IS THIS ~!???" I ask to myself...

SO MANY great band are coming out from UK / Europe and fans keeps them strong !

WHy Metal / Rockn Roll is dead in the USA ? 

Edited at: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 8:40:26 PM
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