Well, I didnt get much of that. As I said many times before, physics is far from my area of expertise.
What I do think we should look for first are normal, everyday causes as to why people get such experiences. I mean, in any house youre bound to hear noises. Maybe its the plumbing, maybe its the creaking of the wood, maybe there are rats or mice in the attic. It could be many things that sound like footsteps or other human activity. Of course, it can also be just that, human activity that comes from another human who is well and alive, that is just mistaken for paranormal. Again, the power of suggestion plays a huge role in it. Somebody might mistake wind for whispering, shadows for apparitions, etc. The doors could be out of balance, and might open on their own, simply because of gravity.
Sorry strat, I don't understand him either! HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT, since you AND the lovely MG have opened the door to further conversation on the subject.... HAHAHAHAAA!!!! Actually MG, we were discussing the unlikeliness of ghosts and spirits. I have been reading on the physics involved and managed to (in MY mind) debunk much of this ghost nonsense. And so, let us continue!
It is said that ghosts are "immaterial" in nature. That is to say they can pass through solid objects and whatnot, yet we are told that people hear "footsteps" and doors opening and so on. This is inconsistent with the laws of motion and force. For a "ghost" to walk, it would require an interaction with the floor. One of the Laws of Motion is intertia (a body at rest remains at rest unless acted upon by external force). One cannot walk unless force is applied to the floor, yet we are told ghosts are immaterial. How could the floor know to exert force without Newton's third law (equal but opposite reaction)? The force applied against the floor causes opposite force (motion) to walk. So which is it? Are ghosts immaterial or not? Maybe they have supernatural powers that defy the laws of physics? Maybe they can "turn it on and off"? More interesting is that this power is used to mimick human ambulation (walking) which is actually a very slow and awkward way of getting about in the grand scheme of things. It occurs to me that a ghost of such incredible talents would use a much more efficient mode to get about.
OMG I missed that in-depth conversation.. geesh
Has anyone here aver had a real expriance?? ghostly in that nature..
I used to live in a town house in Champlin MN many years ago with my brother.. and we always heard a baby crying..
The neighbors had no kids... so we finally asked someone, like a year later.. and they said a lady used to live in the townhouse attached to ours, and she had given birth in the middle of the nite and the baby died in the townhouse???
ANywase,,, thats one of my freaky exper.
(Quoting Message by Soylentgreen4u from Saturday, December 13, 2008 11:17:10 AM)
WE ARE GATHERED HERE TONIGHT TO LAY TO REST ABIGAIL La FEY,WHOM WE NOW KNOW WAS FIRST BORN DEAD ON THE 7th DAY OF JULY 1777...
Tell that to Abigail LaFay.
Head banger wrote:
one would asume that dying in a WWI battle would suck. would a ghost want to stay in such an area, or go somewhere else? personaly, I would move to amsterdam, or backstage of the speerming rhino.
Well, that would depend on how much an average vampire needs to sustain itself. If we take into consideration that an average adult human has about 3 litres of blood in his/her body, how many humans per day would a vampire need to drain to survive? Though Im not sure if "survive" is the correct expression, since I believe vampires are considered to be a part of the "undead" group, alongside Zombies and the Rolling Stones, in which case they dont need to sustain themselves, since they cannot die of hunger, or indeed of anything... Umm... Well, now Im lost. Gotta HATE math.
Now, a bit more seriously, there were some researches made in the area of western Slovenia, near the border with Italy, where there was a very big battle between the Italian and Austro-Hungarian armies in World War 1. Today it is a very popular tourist area, so you can imagine that there are a lot of people crawling over the places where the frontline trenches used to be some 90 years ago. But so far all they found were bones, parts of equipment, and a couple of artillery shells that turn up every year. But no ghosts. Even though a million people died on both sides in 3 years of fighting. Go figure.
Deep Freeze wrote:
Well put, strat. I do believe they have done "paranormal" research at a couple of the places you mentioned. I enjoy physics anyway but I have really enjoyed the research I have been doing. It is incredibly interesting how these things really can be explained. I saw a small piece on vampires that was GREAT. It used math to explain that the "classic" idea of vampires does not work. If one is a vampire and kills a "mortal" then that "mortal" becomes a vampire you end up with one less mortal and one more vampire. If the legend begins in the 1600's and there were X number in the world population, we would be extinct now! HAAAAAA!!!!! Gotta LOVE math!!!
Interesting stuff. Though Im not into any kind of physics, but I do have a bit of a fascination with the paranormal. Not that I believe in ghosts and apparitions and the rest of the classic horror film stuff, but I think it is pretty interesting.
I saw a TV programe a while ago that dealt with the power of suggestion when it came to people experiencing paranormal activities. They found a room in some old building that had a "reputation for being haunted" as they put it, and sent in two groups of people to spend the night in it. One group was aware of the reputation for hauntings, while the other one wasnt. The result was pretty clear. The group that expected to see ghosts saw them (or at least "felt their presence"), while the other group saw what they expected as well; an ordinary room. Just goes to show that our imagination can be very powerfull, and can even trick our senses.
Then its the whole thing about where people see ghosts. Such places are usualy described as sights where people met a very out of the ordinary type of death, usualy very violent and painfull. So why do all those ghost stories take place in old castles, mansions, and similar sights? Wouldnt it be more logical to search for ghosts in sights that were (or are) battlefields or concentration camps? I think that if we abide by that logic, it would be much more easier to find a ghost in Stalingrad or near Paschendale where millions have met a very violent death in a short space of time, than in an old castle, where they hanged some prisoner 300 years ago.
Now, if those occurences can be scientificaly explained, thats another thing. The above are just some of my observances on the "classic" perception of paranormal.
Deep Freeze wrote:
I do not know much about "bigfoot" but I have found that this abundance of time I have compels me to occupy my mind. I have been reading on the paranormal, ghosts and whatnot. Before I go on, you are all aware that I do NOT believe in "god", "deity" and all that. I really do not believe there are such things as "ghosts", spirits and lost-souls, at least not the way we generally think of them. However, as is my wont, I have been researching this from a more scientific position. Specifically, Quantum Physics.
You see, just because we cannot see something does not mean it doesn't exist. Human beings are limited by their five senses. Through Quantum Physics, we learn that there is a plane that truly exists that we cannot see or hear but it is there. For example, we are unable to see ultraviolet light. We cannot hear a "dog whistle". These things do exist. Thus, we come to what many call "ghosts". I have learned that there are two basic types of "ghosts". We can define them as "real" and "unreal", if you will.
"Real" ghosts are often called "interactive". They are everywhere. They are not floating mists or half-figure apparitions. They are basically energy that is outside our sentient boundary. They do not cause fear or dread, rather, the envelope you in the "warm and fuzzies". Some call them "angels" but they are basically energy that is perceived in a spiritual manner. This is NOT paranormal!
"Unreal" ghosts are basically the crap we hear about most often. They exist, or are claimed to exist, by people that actually believe in this stuff. You may have noticed that "non-believers" rarely have occasion to meet up with this form of "ghost". No small wonder. They seem to defy the Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy because they blink in and out of existence like virtual particles. Again, Quantum Physics has a possible answer. There is a statement in QP that says, "nothing is real until you look at it." ALL "ghosts" abide by the laws of QP. Those that experience this type of "ghost" often say they seem to be caught in a "time-loop", replaying a scene over and over. There is a QP equation which states, "for every 'now' that we experience, a positive wave flows into the future and a negative into the past, like ripples on the water when one throws a rock into a pond. That some people have this experience with these "ghosts" is merely a function of human consciousness. In short, a natural occurrence. NOT paranormal.
The existence of "demons" or "poltergeists" are merely a matter of abnormalpsychology. As for "shadows" and whatnot, we can explain these as functions of the physiology of the eye. So, do all these things "exist"? Yes. We can scientifically measure energy. We can prove that there is existence outside of human senses. What is really needed is to remove superstitions and religious nonsense and take a more common-sense approach.
Edited at: Friday, December 12, 2008 3:01:48 PM
Edited at: Saturday, December 13, 2008 11:23:19 AM