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Rob Halford
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Quite a while back heard Halford sang opera, how many find this to be true, or false?

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[J.D. DIAMOND] Saturday, September 26, 2009 4:47:27 AM 

Yes it is a load of bollocks Becks,but that also doesn't mean that an upcoming band shouldn't try and get as far as they can,but never sacrifice heavy metal's traditional

aesthetics and image or it's traditional sound and spirit........who knows...maybe there will be one band that emerges up from nowhere...alls it takes is one band to get

thier name out and gain momentum and eventually others would be sure to follow..ect....a new heavy metal scene....they may not reach the status and the kind of cash
flow that Priest are comfortable with having that they earned of course,but they may also be able to bring heavy metal back a little bit and still make a living at it.

tasnam1 is right about bands that have started out with thier style and sound..ect..and slowly sold out because they had to at that time,it is just what it is. But just

like the first Exciter song from 1983's Heavy Metal Maniac album....todays bands have to "STAND UP AND FIGHT".....fight for heavy metal.

  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Becks from Saturday, September 26, 2009 4:13:22 AM)
[Becks] Saturday, September 26, 2009 4:13:22 AM 
Sad isn't it JD. People these days have massive misconceptions about 'traditional' heavy metal. Plus it's all pop and rap and other shit music that is popular anyway, so like you say, if a band was to come out with Priest or Maiden style heavy metal, they wouldn't get very far. It's such a load of bollocks.
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by J.D. DIAMOND from Saturday, September 26, 2009 3:52:34 AM)
[J.D. DIAMOND] Saturday, September 26, 2009 3:52:34 AM 

Yes tasnam1....nobody ever said that it wasn't about the money...we all know that. What I am saying is that up-starting bands that want to "make it big" like Judas Priest or Iron maiden

can NOT "make it big" playing traditional heavy metal like Judas Priest or Iron Maiden because that is not what sells today. Sure Priest and Maiden sell big time because they are already

established from the great 1980's. If they were to merge onto the scene today...both Priest and Maiden wouldn't get very far and have a very very small fan base because heavy metal is not

the "in thing" in today's day and age...its crap bands like Mushroomhead and system of a down and ect...       If anyone wants to create a traditional heavy metal band and persue it seriously

than they will have to realize and understand that they will not be making any big time cash and will probably have to work a real job on the side..ect.......    Once they take the "sell out road"

and conform to what the big time producer wants and change thier image and sound ect....than they are no longer a traditional heavy metal band.  Its pretty simple.  Bands that will carry the

torch for Judas Priest,Saxon,Iron Maiden,Black Sabbath....will be underground underrated bands that will do it for the love of traditinal heavy metal music and be satisfied with what little cash

they will get from it all.  There is no magic record label that will let you create a band similar to Judas Priest and play kick ass heavy metal,open up for Priest..ect..and earn as much money

as Priest or even close.... .....if you want the kind of money as Judas Priest or Iron will have to do it with another style of music,not "heavy metal" cause it aint happening.

  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by tasnam1 from Friday, September 25, 2009 11:28:30 PM)
[tasnam1] Friday, September 25, 2009 11:28:30 PM 

As I said in my post.  "It is about the money".  which is the reasons why these bands change.

I never said I agreed or supported it.

It is simple about the money so most (if not even all) bands adapt and change to meet the demands of the business.

Example:  (Note I am not in the business so these are my assumptions)

#1  Band makes first album sells 10,000 copies - no food to eat, hand to mouth
#2 Fronted $50,000 to make second album.  Sell 100,000 copies - get money for booze, drugs, girls & food.

#3 Fronted $125,000 to make third album.  Sell 500,000 copies - get first sports car, real apartment and more excesses.

#4 Fronted $250,000 to make forth album.  Sell 1,000,000 copies.  Buy house, Fararri and lots of girls.

#5 Fronted $500,000 to make fifth album. Sales Suck.  sell only 450,000 copies.  Indebted to record company even more.  
HAVE to sell more albums to keep up with lifestyle and pay back fronte money.

Need money for excesses that they have become accustomed to.

#6 Company puts even MORE pressure on them to top the past sales and the band concedes.  
They HAVe to; in order to keep up the pattern of growth. 

#7 You know the rest of this story.....

This is the way of the REAL Music world.  
You and I know that many bands start with the intent of putting music first but they get caught in the corporate trap.  

In fact almost no way around it.  


BTW - I have had a few scotches tonight so sorry for typos........Cheers!


Edited at: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:31:41 PM
[J.D. DIAMOND] Friday, September 25, 2009 10:18:50 PM 

Yes I agree Becks.  What Freeze said is true...many bands are more willing to make a buck than to follow in thier heavy metal traditions. If a band stayed true to itself and did not

sell out...and still made it big without changing...than it would be like winning the lottory......I don't think there are enough musicians that have a passion for heavy metal anymore.

Too many are playing death and black metal and everything inbetween......

  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Becks from Friday, September 25, 2009 4:53:02 PM)
[Becks] Friday, September 25, 2009 4:53:02 PM 
I agee JD. There's nothing worse than being stuck in a job where you get paid well, but you are not doing what you love. I would rather do what I love, for example if I played in a band, heavy metal music, rather than selling out playing music I hated just for a bit of cash. And yes, there are things so much more important than money. I too am glad just to be healthy and have a roof over my head.
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by J.D. DIAMOND from Friday, September 25, 2009 4:46:59 PM)
[J.D. DIAMOND] Friday, September 25, 2009 4:46:59 PM 
LOL!   Well....yeah your right!! lol! It is very hard to say........I personally "would not".   Why? Because I would "HATE" my job...playing music I don't like and having to play 

show after show after show acting like I am enjoying what I'm doing.......yeah I would have the million dollar contract but I would become VERY depressed and unhappy 

very fast. I don't think money is everything.........I often think like this whenever I see somebody that has cancer....I think to myself...I am healthy and I have a roof over my head

and think to could I be bitching about wanting more money and wanting more things when I just saw this person that has a life threatening illness?  It really 

brings me down to earth and charrish what I getting rich is really not that imprtant to me.  Somebody else may have a different opinion and thats fine..but for

me I could never sell out heavy metal to a record label's idea of thier sound and image.
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Friday, September 25, 2009 3:42:59 PM)
[Deep Freeze] Friday, September 25, 2009 3:42:59 PM 
I see what you mean. It's a shame but you're right in so much as there are far more bands that sell out than those that stay true to their "dream"...unless of course that "dream" is to make cash. It's hard to say what it is in a person's mind and it is harder to say what I would do if a record label waved a million dollar contract in front of me and said, "put on a hockey jersey and a hat"...   HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Gotta admit, my friend, I would be VERY tempted.
[J.D. DIAMOND] Friday, September 25, 2009 2:55:02 PM 
They continue to chase that particular career and are willing to do "whatever it takes" to "make it" and that almost always means selling out.

Yes Freeze you are correct,I agree. But when they  "chase that career" and do whatever it takes to "make it" including "selling out"...than they have "NOT" even come close to 

thier dream in the first place right? If a heavy metal band starts out with total metal aesthetics and total metal traditional sound..ect...and then a major record lable signs them

and then the producer changes thier image,taints thier sound and tweeks thier entire formula to "sell records to the mass" the time the band hits the populas...they are a 

total joke and nowhere near "metal".  All of that just to get a few dollars for about a "year" till they fade out and never heard from again.  Heavy Metal is not going to be huge as it 

was in the 80's....if people keep believing this they are in for a disappointment big time. If I joined a heavy metal would be for "passion" and aesthetics....if a record producer

said to me: J.D....we can sell tons of albums if you do this..ect... I would definately say "forget it".   Alls they do is take a normal heavy metal band and turn thier sound and image into

a band like "Popevil".  If you and I started a traditional band and turned it into a record label and they signed us...they would want to turn us into a "Disturbed" or a "Godsmack"........

because that is what the general population listens to. "Making it" isn't that important to me as I would be embarressed to be a part of a band that drops thier beliefs for cash$.

There are lots of heavy metal bands that keep playing heavy metal and are not "making it big" but they still get to do what they love.  Take the very popular black metal band

"Darkthrone" from Norway. They are a part of the begining of the norwegian black metal scene and they are probably the MOST popular black metal band in the entire scene

and they do get some money from all of thier exposure..but nothing like Judas Priest..ect...Darkthrone's 2 members work in factories and they do Darkthone on the side!!!!

So they work a normal job to pay the bills.....Immortal's drummer Horough does construction on his off time to keep up with bills and Immortal is ever as bit as popular as 

Darkthrone is.  So todays age....there IS NO MARKET for selling traditional heavy metal music like Judas Priest....if we came to a producer  of a "big" label and said 

we wanted to do our own style..ect...he would say "no way in hell" cause this is not going to make me any money. Thats why bands that want to play real heavy metal and don't

care about the cash....then they go to a underground label and do it there. I guess it really is up to the individual and his passion for true heavy metal music. Nobody is going to

get away with calling an over-produced top 40 approached sell-out "do what ever it takes" band a "heavy metal band". The "fans" always shut it down.  So I guess it really is up

to the individual and thier standards as to waht kind of music they are willing to play just to earn a dollar. If they want the money...then create a top 40 rock band and don't claim

it as "heavy metal"....then they have a chance at "making it big" a band like "Popevil".

  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Friday, September 25, 2009 8:04:07 AM) Edited at: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:55:44 PM
Edited at: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:56:07 PM
[guidogodoy] Friday, September 25, 2009 10:32:53 AM 
In this photo, Kirk reminds me of Billy Crystal: "You look marvelous!"

  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by J.D. DIAMOND from Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:39:16 PM)
[Deep Freeze] Friday, September 25, 2009 8:04:07 AM 
Hmm. Good point. I guess you're right about the fact that the "scene" has changed considerably.  Metal itself certainly has. It seems that the people that are putting out Metal are not so much interested in image, just as you said, as they are mass appeal. There are good bands out there but very little substance. That has been my complaint with most "popular" music.. lack of substance.

I suppose it comes down to comparing a group like Pentagram with a more recent act. As you said, the guys in Pentagram never "sold out". But they are the exception. Management and Record companies are looking for acts they can sell on a mass scale. Independant labels still sign smaller acts but the bigger companies are looking for marketing appeal. Besides, spending your career working in small clubs and bars for a few hundred dollars is a brutal way to make a living. Hard work, little pay. But...well, you get to play music, right?

Of course, there are still those "musicians" out there that claim they cannot handle being a "nine to fiver" or doing a "regular" job so music is all they know and all they want to do. They continue to chase that particular career and are willing to do "whatever it takes" to "make it" and that almost always means selling out.
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by J.D. DIAMOND from Friday, September 25, 2009 3:57:07 AM)
[J.D. DIAMOND] Friday, September 25, 2009 3:57:07 AM 

Yeah I can agree Freeze. The overall point that I want to make is that in today's day and age "the "heavy metal scene" is about "underground". Back in the 80's it was you got in a band

and tried to "make it".....if you didn't "make it" in about a year...then you "quit". Thats it. I don't think very many people realized that "making it" wasn't the #1 important thing.....the most

important thing was the "music".  The doom rock band "Pentagram" from the states is a perfect example of this. They never gave up and they never "made it"....but even today Bobby 

Liebling(lead vocalist) is extremely proud of Pentagram and they have had an underground cult following since the 70's with thier studio albums and live albums ect.   If a bunch of guys

want to get into "heavy metal" to make money...than they are in the wrong business. Sure you can get on a its easy,back then it was not.  But you will not be making much 

money at all.The odds of a band "making it big" in Heavy Metal and having lots of cash are very slim.  Getting into a heavy metal band is not much different then getting into a black metal

band or a death metal only should do it because you love the music and have a passion for it....not to hope to try and become a millionare at "any costs"..and this includes 

dressing in tunnel hat clothing to go along with the producer of the record deal..ect.....And to answer Tasnam1's post........"this is whats wrong with the heavy metal scene today". 

  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Deep Freeze from Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:27:29 PM)
Edited at: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:58:43 AM
[Deep Freeze] Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:27:29 PM 
I guess it comes down to what they are doing it for in the first place. I mean, if they are looking to make money, they are going to do what they must to make money. I have often said that I truly love "real" Metal. Old School Metal. Priest music. it is, by far, my favorite but I am also smart enough to know that "making it" is about what "it" means.... MONEY.  Unless your name is Halford, your chances of making a lot of money in Metal are VERY low. There are not a lot of albums flying off the shelves in that genre. Sad but true.

It would seem that making money in music is easiest if you sing (speak?) through a synthesizer to pre-recorded music and have a half dozen lame dancers writhing around behind you doing some moronic, synchronized "moves". Not a lot of real "talent" there but, well get the idea.  I guess the point is, what is it that a band or an act are looking for?  WHY do they do it? Fame? Money? Or simply to "express" themselves through music? If it is the latter, I don't suppose it matters if they are wearing leather or tutus but, ....well, it does. Seems to me that the MUSIC is far less important to the "buying" public.
[tasnam1] Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:04:42 PM 
There is a reason for this folks.....

It's called making money and losing touch with the grit you started with.

If you notice it happens to most bands that end up "making it".  

 [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Becks from Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:40:45 PM)
Edited at: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:05:21 PM
[Becks] Thursday, September 24, 2009 5:52:48 PM 
LOL JD! I'm a Metallica fan, but definitely one who will take Battery over Bleeding Me or anything like that. I heard a girl on a best metal bands debate I watched online say that Metallica show how great they are cos even they can't top their first four albums. Errr...................point is they should be able to but never did.
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by J.D. DIAMOND from Thursday, September 24, 2009 5:41:50 PM)
[J.D. DIAMOND] Thursday, September 24, 2009 5:41:50 PM 
LOL!! Awsome Phantom!!!!  Awsome!! LOL!! And sorry Hellrider!! LOL!!  Nobody deserves to have Metallica playing in thier head!!! lol!
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Phantom A6 from Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:57:02 PM)
[Phantom A6] Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:57:02 PM 


[hellrider 31038] Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:54:11 PM 
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by J.D. DIAMOND from Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:47:00 PM)
[J.D. DIAMOND] Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:47:00 PM 
Yes Becks thats what it looks like to me!! lol!! Don't get me wrong here...its "OK" for Metallica to wear these off-stage cloths ......Priest does too I know
but 99% of the time we see Priest,they are in thier metal should only see photos of the band with thier off-stage clothing once in a while...

not all the time like Metallica has shown........
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by Becks from Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:40:45 PM)
[Becks] Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:40:45 PM 
They look like they're going to head down to starbucks and get a double shot trim soy milk latte or some shit, LOL!
  [Show/Hide Quoted Message] (Quoting Message by J.D. DIAMOND from Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:39:16 PM)
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